High School Guidance office

Parents Forum
41

<p>Lafalum, our situation for our oldest was a sitcom. The two college counselors were spiffy, articulate , on the ball, interested, visited colleges, gave parents meetings and talks, sent out informational memos--they were the picture of efficiency. I thought the situation was going to be ideal. </p>

<p>Well, when it came time to give the schools the apps to mail with the transcripts, we met Mrs "Abernathy", who sat in an open foyer serving all of the guidance counselors and other school administrators. She was the sole keeper of the applications, transcripts, recommendations. You either gave her your part of the apps which she stuck in stack and would add the school stuff to yours and mail them, or filled out a request form for the school stuff to be mailed, and you took care of your part of the app. Well, one look at Mrs Abernathy, her workload, her stacks and desk, and you took your stuff and ran. You then just hoped she sent the school part in a timely manner as she was one cranky old biddy, who could not care less about parent relations, and she was as nasty as could be to everyone. It seemed to be that the counselors stayed far, far away from her. And at that time those counselors were on the road looking at colleges and talking to the junior parents!
In all fairness, Mrs Abernathy was terribly overworked with inadequate physical resources (desk, files, privacy) . But I'll never forget getting my first glimpse of who was in charge of my son's apps after all of that hype from those other counselors!</p>

42

<p>My guidance office was a joke!!! I was advised not to apply to UChicago or Northwestern (I'm from Michigan) because I probably wouldn't get in. She didn't outright say it she just implied it by saying, "You need to consider the risks and whether it's worth spending all that money on applications, and more importantly, whether you can even afford to go should you actually get accepted." </p>

<p>Yeah, then when I bring up the fin. aid she doesn't even know what the CSS Profile is!!!! I explain it to her and she has no clue about it. She keeps saying fin. aid won't be that great and that going to such expensive institutions will be "expensive" because the fin. aid will be lower.</p>

<p>Then she even told me I would have a hard time getting into U of M because they accept only a certain number and they have a smaller class for 06! Ha! I got accepted to U of M AND UChicago. And guess where I'm at? UCHICAGO!! Very cheaply too!</p>

<p>She even told the Valedictorian of my class not to apply to U of M - he had a 26 ACT, over 4.0, was in-state, and wold have turned in the app early!</p>

43

<p>I attend a small private high school with two university counselors for a senior class of 50. My assigned counselor is nice enough, but some of the "advice" she's given me has been blatantly, inexcusably WRONG. Some examples:</p>

<p>(a) **All colleges except Ivies offer merit aid.<a href="I%20don't%20think%20I%20need%20to%20explain%20what's%20wrong%20with%20this%20statement,%20but%20if%20it%20hadn't%20been%20for%20CC%20I%20would've%20believed%20her.">/b</a>
(b) **I should apply to public universities.<a href="I'm%20not%20a%20US%20citizen,%20so%20I'm%20out%20of%20state%20everywhere%20and%20don't%20qualify%20for%20public%20financial%20aid.%20It%20makes%20%5Bi%5Dno%20economic%20sense%5B/i%5D%20for%20me%20to%20apply%20to%20public%20schools.">/b</a>
This last one isn't actually misinformation, just presumptuousness:
(c) **Because I'm applying to some very selective schools, I must automatically be immature and a prestige whore.<a href="Actually,%20every%20school%20on%20my%20list%20is%20there%20because%20I%20thought%20it%20seemed%20like%20a%20good%20fit.%20Some%20of%20them%20just%20happen%20to%20be%20difficult%20to%20get%20into.">/b</a></p>

<p>I also don't think she likes me very much, but that's a different issue.</p>

44

<p>I made it my mission to steer clear of my GC's office. I never even told them where I applied to, let alone be within reaching distance of my app.</p>

<p>My friend, now, poor guy, didn't realize that was a good idea. He had a form that he had to get signed by the principal and guidance counselor (dual-enrollment or something) and, after it had already been signed by the principal, the GC confiscated it because she didn't think the principal should have signed it. Never mind that it was a perfectly reasonable and allowed request, apparently the GC thought they were the supreme dictator of the school.</p>

45

<p>Maybe a problem is that the term "guidance office" can imply too much? Some students and parents expect to research their own schools, find the right mix of reaches/matches/safeties, keep track of standardized test dates and results, etc., on their own and use the guidance counselor only as the official hs representative. Others hear the word "guidance" and expect to be guided, which is really asking a lot of a counselor who may have several hundred students to oversee, provide paperwork/recommendations for, schedule classes according to the state's graduation requirements, etc.</p>

<p>Our guidance office does an excellent job of providing certain services, but I wouldn't make the mistake of thinking that the counselor is going to lead us through the process, as parents who are new to it may. This despite the fact that our guidance office is actually called a "Counseling Center" - and that, to me, implies even more in the way of support. </p>

<p>Our counselors have approximately 75 kids in each class to keep track of, for a total of 300. They must: meet with each kid to oversee their course schedule for each year; provide recommendations for each senior; provide seminars twice each year for each grade level (adjusting to hs life, personality testing to help kids consider possible future careers, the college admissions process, etc.); serve as a sounding board for students and parents over a variety of issues; provide other services and paperwork, such as working papers, recs for summer programs and part-time jobs, etc.; lots more I don't have time to list!</p>

<p>I certainly could never do that job. The parental phone calls alone would finish me off in a week.</p>

46

<p>My D's school has 2 G.C's for about 120 kids per class. Luckily, my D's last name falls in the alphabet with the good G.C.!</p>

<p>We started meeting with her last year when my D was a junior and the G.C. did actually provide guidance! Listened to my D on where she wanted to go, what types of colleges, and listed other options. When they got a list of about 20 schools, pointed out which ones would most likely be a reach, a match and safety. Over the summer, my D's choices changed and we met in early Sept. and went through the whole thing again. We asked what was better - common app (for those who had it) or paper app - she said whatever we felt comfortable about but that as technology seemed to be the way schools were going, it might be easier. Never made us feel rushed at all or anything. My one concern is that the secretary (who had been there forever!) had retired and a new one was there. But, it all seems to have worked out and my D had no problems with anything getting to the schools she applied EA to.</p>

<p>I have heard some horror stories about the other G.C., so I'm just thankful our last name is between A-L!</p>

47

<p>Some people on here are lucky. My school has ~1500 kids, only 6 guidance counselors. Yup, about 250 students per GC. But it's not like they're overworked - half the school applies to schools that don't require recs or anything. They're just completely clueless.</p>

48

<p>MAMom23's experience is very much like ours. We count ourselves quite blessed as we have heard the horror stories (and we have had real nightmares with other members of the school's administration). I might even start giving to the school again!</p>

<p>Still, we could have gotten the other counselor. And mistakes could have happened and things could have been overlooked. Sometimes I feel as though we have come into this vastly over-prepared. Then again, I'm glad we started early, did our homework, and had resources such as CC and parents who had been through the process available. So far it has gone remarkably smoothly but I feel we have strong, deep resources if we need them. And my D feels empowered by her depth of knowledge and by having had the luxury of time, experience, and exposure to lots of different sc hools -- this has helped her know her own heart.</p>

<p>Still (and rather belatedly for the parent of a senior), I've learned enmorous amounts about parenting and being an encouraging human being from D's college counselor -- what a gift she is!</p>

49

<p>At daughter's large public high school, each guidance counselor has 300+ students. Two of the four counselors are coaches (no offense coaches out there, but in our school they often let them slide into counseling positions when they are available because they require "less work" and they can be gone a lot without the school having to find a substitute!). They are only concerned with the students that are keeping the school from meeting the prized "Adequate Yearly Progress", which allows them to keep their funding - and I hate to say they are hanging on by the skin of their teeth! DD is the ONLY NMSF in her class and I don't know if her counselor would know her if she passed her in the hall. She was basically handed the NMSF packet and told to type it up and have it back to the school by a certain date!! And COLLEGE ADVISING?!?!? Not happening!
This brings me to a questions I have pondered for a long time - do you think colleges ever look at a student from "Podunk High" in the sticks, one that has received no counseling, has endured a less than mediocre high school curriculum, and basically has not a clue as to how the college admission game is played and says, "Wow, look what this kid has been able to accomplish in this environment?" Do they look at that crude application, one completed BY the student (not a team of advisors) and give it equal consideration with the highly polished application of the kids with the private counselor? I use to hold out hope, but more and more, I think not.</p>

50

<p>How would they know whether or not a private counselor was involved though?</p>

<p>I wish it could somehow be known that I've done this whole college admissions process by myself - picking schools, essays, ECs throughout high school, test prep, etc. No one held my hand and looked over my essays with a microscope, yet I'm being compared against those who have had that kind of help. Kinda sad.</p>

51

<p>I don't think it matters much if you have a college counselor or not. Books on college essay writing are available at the public library or bookstore. Your grades and board scores you earn - and can usually improve by some studying. College selection info is available here for free (Yeah, CC!). I think people overestimate the influence a college counselor has on outcomes. Just my 2cents....</p>

52

<p>I think counselors are very useful when it comes to course scheduling and writing your recommendation. Its up to them to explain maybe your upward trend, or point out to some of your academic successes, and other technical things that you probably wont mention on your own in the essay.</p>

53

<p>I'm honestly worried that my counselor will write me a negative (or at least unenthusiastic) recommendation. I think she thinks I'm an arrogant know-it-all for pointing out her mistakes when I notice them, a prestige whore with entitlement issues for applying to selective schools in the US instead of "going back to my own country" even though I've lived here for much longer, and a neurotic basketcase because I'm always worrying about everything from whether my mother will agree to fill out the financial aid forms (she thinks they're an invasion of privacy) to the unreasonably small size of the textboxes on the online Common App. I'm not saying I've done everything the right way in this process, but she comes across as really patronizing (in that sweetie-don't-you-think-you're-overreacting way) and seems to think I'm being totally unreasonable.</p>

<p>Looking back over what I just wrote, maybe she has a point... :o</p>

54

<p>My GC has offered advice that is blatantly incorrect. She is brand new to our school this year, so she has no idea about the procedures in place as far as recs and local scholarships go. She has told me that:
-ED is not binding
-the Ivies give merit aid, but Caltech doesn't
-I shouldn't ask for recs until Halloween (I asked the 2nd week of school)
-Essays should be informative, not creative
-Selective schools like Stanford are just 'snobs' - why shouldn't they select students with a 2.8 and a 1780? I think this goes back to her DD being rejected with similar stats...</p>

<p>Needless to say, she is not much help. The counselor rec was absolutely riddled with grammatical errors; I am suprised that she managed to get her masters. Thankfully, the registrar is a local mom who has two sons at Stanford and one in my class. We all ask the GC for 'official' advice, ignore it, and get the facts from the registrar.</p>

55

<p>Our school has a fantastic system, one college counselor per 30 students, and you stay with your counselor from sophomore year on. They go over class choices, testing options, and choosing schools. They also read over your essays and offer comments. The problem is we're such a competitive school, sending so many to the top schools, that they have to deal with a lot of very angry parents (such as the parents who couldn't believe their child only got into Amherst). Because of that, I assume, there isn't much transparency in the process and I feel like I'd love to know what goes on behind the curtain. They don't rank (at least not externally, but they somehow figure out a val by the end of the year). They certainly don't tell you where you stand in relation to your peers (GPA-wise). They don't hand out any major awards till after the college process is over. They don't join the type of organizations that give kids academic awards to pad their resumes. And, my biggest complaint, is that they don't work as a team to try and make the best decisions for all the applicants. Case in point, approximately 10% of the seniors applied ED to Penn, another 10% applied SCEA to Yale. There is no way in the world these kids all stand an equal chance -- why not spread the applications around. But, all in all, I think my son would be lost without the counselor's (and staff's) help.</p>

56

<p>High School guidance office is a joke. The people that work in them are high school drop outs.</p>

57

<p>I would recommend everyone send out their applications themselves. That way, you know exactly what was sent, where it was sent, and when it was sent. Guidance offices have been known to make numerous mistakes, and so your best bet is to handle everything yourself.</p>

58

<p>LOL, this all reminds me of the movie Orange County - anyone seen that? :)</p>

59

<p>I remember that movie. So funny. GC told the guy that he is a shoe in at Stanford, and not to apply to any safeties. Then she sent the wrong transcript, and instead of the 4.0 1600, she sent the 1.7 1000 earned by some other kid. The main character then proceeded to attack the GC when he is rejected from Stanford, (who wouldn't) but was arrested soon afterwards. </p>

<p>Having said that, my GC is ok. The only college I am a sure thing at are my state schools. She doesn't know much about colleges though. My mom told her I am applying to UChicago and she recommended Wisconsin as a safety (don't see how these two are remotely similar). She was also the only person I have met to say my prestigious internship may not look as good as taking a few AP classes. Also, other counselors bend the rules in class scheduling (one GC sits with my friend and they map out the perfect schedule) but my GC will not let me request teachers, even if they teach the same period and the class I am in is overcrowded and the other class has 17 students. All in all, she wasn't that bad and I think I could have been much worse off. The plus side is that she is pretty nice and easy to approach. I would hate to have a mean GC.</p>

60

<p>I know that the level of counseling varies from school to school where some do it really well and others are a waste of space.</p>

<p>From what I have seen in NYC public schools, there are some schools where the GC has a case load of 500-600 kids, there is no dedicated college counselor so the GC has their guidance caseload in addition to the counseling piece for all of their kids.</p>

<p>While yes, some guidance or advising should be done by the GC and they should definitely be handling the paperwork (evaluations, transcripts, etc), I don't think that it absolves the student or their family from researching prospective schools. We also have to keep in mind that the majority of students do attend their local colleges (state or city U's and posters on CC is a niche in and of itself) so many counselors may not have the information so I would not look to the GC to recommend schools. </p>

<p>At my D's school,</p>

<p>D's college counselor in adddition to doing the college piece for all of the seniors, coordinates all of the internships for the juniors, as well as teaching 6 classes per week -she has all of the seniors for senior institute. </p>

<p>In the spring of junior year. She holds a college planing night and a financial aid night for junior students and their parents. During that time, each student is given a copy of the school profile and a copy of their transcript of grades. She also makes appointments for students and their parent to meet with her to find out what the student is looking for. She gives out brag sheets to the parents to write about their kids, in addition to giving an acitvity sheet to all of the students in order to get a fuller view of each kid.</p>

<p>Senior year:</p>

<p>All seniors are given a copy of their transcript to review. the transcript has to be signed by both the student and the parent to attest that the information on the transcript is correct.</p>

<p>There are 2 computers in the college office where that students can use to sign up for the SAT/ACT or research schools (during their lunch or free period) she has a full collection of books, raning from the gatekeepers to fiske etc.</p>

<p>Some of the essay writing also happens in senior institute (for students who have not already done essays).</p>

<p>Students can apply to 8 schools including CUNY (where there are 6 schools on the application) and SUNY (up to 4 schools on the application). She does not deviate from the 8 applications because she feels that it forces the student and their parents to do extensive research on their schools and to not simply toss applications out there (she has no help in the processing of the paperwork).</p>

<p>Since she has a classroom connected to her office all senior (about 100 of them) have a mail box which they are expected to check. In the classroom there is a large poster of deadlines by application date:</p>

<p>Rolling admissions application are due to GC by X
Schools with and application date of A is due to GC by B</p>

<p>there is no last minute stuff done because every one knows that if you turn in your paperwork late, then you risk having your stuff go out late.</p>

<p>The first part of peer leadership is spent researching an presenting schools that are outside of the "usual suspects" so that students are aware that there are more schools outside of the U.S. news top 25 (to her credit she does know the LACs like the back of her hands)/ They review and fill out practice FAFSAs in class and again they talk about what it is to be need blind (which is an admissions process) need based FA and how all aid is not created equal.</p>

<p>Overall, the GC should just be another resource.</p>