High School Honors Enrollment help!

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Last year my dd auditioned for and was accepted as a high school honors student to Duquesne University, Mary Pappert School of Music. It was exciting to be accepted with a full freshman audition when a sophmore in high school. Plus those 6 credits come at 80% off regular tuition!</p>

<p>This fall she enrolled for 6 credits at Mary Pappert, Musicianship 101 and Eurhythmics 101. She was really nervous her first week at university - worried the other students would spot her as a high schooler, that she couldn't keep up with the work. . .</p>

<p>Now in Nov. she is making straight A's, and bored out of her mind. She is studying key signatures and the like, plus sight singing easy pieces. She is invited to attend group class weekly, but due to high school requirements she can't make the group class. So she is doing boring work, and starting to hate the classes.</p>

<p>She plans to audition for Duquesne, but it is not her top choice. Right now her top 3 school choices are Eastman and Oberlin, & Westminster Choir College, and she is still very interested in Depauw, Baldwin Wallace, and Cleveland Inst. I have talked with admissions people at all these schools, and only Eastman will accept her Duquesne credits no question asked. (Eastman and Duquesne share music theory faculty, which I believe explains this!) The other schools all say her placement, should she be accepted, would depend on entrance theory exams.</p>

<p>So my question: should she stay at Duquesne for classes she hates, that may not count towards her later degree? She is a cyberschool student with an accredited cyberschool, but I thought some college work might make her high school diploma more weighty, so that is a factor as well.</p>

<p>Advice???</p>

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<p>We have a rule in our house. You start something, you finish it. Commitments are not something to be bandied about. Boredom would certainly not be a good excuse to drop something. What will she do in college when she has boring courses ? </p>

<p>I have a funny feeling that if she sticks with these courses they will help when she is in college and she will be glad that she took them.</p>

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<p>My D is at Eastman and loves it. Actually, that’s an understatement–she’s in heaven. She tested out of the first semester of theory, so that gives her a bit of a breather. Sounds like your D would get some theory credit, which is amazing because Eastman gives very little college transfer credit. Your D will be happy that she stuck it out if she stays in the class–if Eastman accepts the credits then I assume the class is very challenging and thorough. She might easily test out of the first semester of theory wherever she goes, even if she doesn’t get the credits. Good luck, and feel free to PM me if you have questions about Eastman.</p>

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<p>If she is applying for music performance at schools like Eastman and CIM, the “weightiness” of her high school diploma is unlikely to be a factor, especially if she has excellent SAT’s (which are sometimes more of a factor when the high school diploma is from a less traditional source). </p>

<p>It sounds like the courses (101-level) are the easiest offered. Perhaps she was not appropriately placed. If she sticks with the program, the courses will likely become more difficult and less boring. If your daughter continues to find them boring, then that is certainly information to use when considering Duquesne and when considering majoring in music. What is group class? (Sorry for my ignorance, but I assumed that most classes at a university like Duquesne would be taught to groups.) Is she getting private lessons for these two classes at Duquesne? Or is she taking them online? </p>

<p>I understand that her high school is being done through cyberschool. I have found that cyberschool students usually find regular classrooms with regular peers boring for the first several months because they are accustomed to going at their own pace and unaccustomed to enduring the wasted time of classroom routines and snail-speed instruction that is slowed down to suit the slowest students. [Please note: this is not intended as a criticism of cyberschooling, but rather of group instruction.] Being in the Duquesne classes may help prepare her for college classes (assuming that her Duquesne classes are group-based, which I am unsure of given your mention of “group class.”).</p>

<p>Regardless of whether the Duquesne classes count towards her degree or not, as sagiter mentions, she will solidify and pick up valuable skills. Most conservatories do allow students to test out of at least one or two theory courses even when they will not give them credit for classes taken elsewhere. My son tested out of a total of 5 music courses (and felt he probably could have tested out of more, but did not take the additional placement exams–I recommended that he not take all the placement exams, as I would prefer that he have very solid theory skills).</p>

<p>If your daughter is not learning anything and is hating the classes, then they are a waste of time and I would be inclined to let her drop them unless you foresee that things will improve (as I suspect things should). I would not let her drop them merely because they are boring.</p>

<p>Probably a talk with a faculty member at the school is in order: ask them if your daughter is misplaced in an elementary class. Check the curriculum for 2nd semester classes to determine if it contains material that will be new and challenging to your daughter.</p>

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<p>Oh I have the rule: we pay, you finish. Dd is NOT dropping out of the current semester!! She is trying to decide if she should not register for next semester. I’m sorry I didn’t make that clear.</p>

<p>Because she is a high school student, Duquesne Univ. only allows her to take freshman classes her first year. She did indeed test higher on the audition theory exam, but the university rules prevent the music school from enrolling her in a higher level course. At Eastman last summer (she went to Horizons) she tested into higher level theory, and loved it.</p>

<p>The group class she can’t attend is for organ performance, which sadly meets on Tues. afternoon when she has other commitments she has to fulfill for high school graduation! The musicianship and eurhthmics classes are also group classes, but not for her specific future major. Some of the entering freshman have never done sightsinging, or clapped rhythms, or even know key signatures, so this has been an eye opener for dd. At our first college visit last week, she asked very pointed questions about music theory classes at Westminster Choir College. </p>

<p>She has gotten good things from this, especially as a cyberschooler. She learned how to get her ID, find her books, go to class. The other students think she is their age, which has boosted her self esteem more than her straight A’s. I do think that Eastman’s summer program had her expecting more from her first semester.</p>

<p>The decision now is whether or not to enroll again next semester. Violindad I like your advice that she ask or I about the level of material next semester. If she sees light at the end of the tunnel, I think she will be able to register for next semester without feeling she is wasting her time. I’ll have her talk with her teachers at Duquesne - itself a good thing to practice.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone.</p>

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<p>OK good, glad it’s not dropping the class. </p>

<p>Based on what I now understand, if nothing is offered that will interest her then there probably is no point. </p>

<p>There is a caveat though and this is something you will have to check. My son entered college with 31 credits. He is a double major in music performance and music education and attends a university not a conservatory. While many of his credits are not accepted for his major, he did not have to take most of the “core” curriculum classes (he opted to take theory I though he did not have to, he says now in hindsight that it was a good idea) and more important I think, these credits are accepted as college standing credits which are very important for “quality of life” issues. On his first day of school as a freshman he was technically a sophomore in standing. Now that he is a sophomore, because of these credits and his heavy course load, he is technically a junior and will be a senior by the end of the year. This is important and I call it quality of life because in terms of things like dorm selection, registration and several other things he gets to choose first as many things are classed by credit accumulation. He gets to register for classes first, he gets more residence points assigned to him because they are based on credits, etc.</p>

<p>Just something to think about.</p>

<p>btw… the organ group class you are referring to is probably what most of us consider a “master” class.</p>

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<p>I agree that there is no point enrolling next semester if the theory class is not going to be taught at a level that would be useful to your daughter. On the other hand, if the pace suddenly does pick up, she might find it beneficial. Would it be possible for her to request a look at the syllabus? </p>

<p>As for the accumulation of college credits, etc.-- it’s a mixed bag, and you don’t really know whether these credits will be useful until you know what college your D will attend. In some cases, too many dual credits (this will not affect your D based on what you wrote) will automatically require your daughter to enter as a transfer student, which could be a good thing but might make her ineligible for freshman housing and some scholarships. At some schools, AP or college credit is valuable for allowing you to place out of fundamental courses - so your schedule can be more open and you have more course choices. Other schools don’t give credit or allow students to place out of courses. Some require placement tests regardless of the high school transcript. It’s like playing roulette unless you already know in advance where she will be going. (I have 4 kids, the youngest now a high school junior, and it’s been a totally different story in this regard for each of the oldest 3, something we could not really predict in advance.)</p>

<p>So I guess what I’m saying is that unless your daughter is very set on a particular conservatory and knows their policy, then her decision should be guided by whether she finds the course engaging and useful. If she feels there are better ways to spend her time, she should not re-enroll. Good luck to her.</p>

<p>BTW, my two youngest (one now a freshman at a conservatory) go/went to a PA cyber charter school, both deciding to do that after a year of public magnet high school.</p>

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<p>I too wouldn’t be encouraging spring classes if the hope is that said classes would count for college credit; it seems to be there is no set standard for which universities or conservatories accept other college/university credits, high AP scores, or even which schools allow kids to pass out of intro classes.</p>

<p>From my perspective, the value of those classes would be if, wherever she ends up, your D has learned enough to place out of the intro classes. It saves a lot of time, money and decreases boredom. Again, though, not every school allows students to place out of intro courses, so this is another thing to look into.</p>

<p>Like Sagiter’s son, mine placed out of enough courses and was granted enough AP credits to be finishing a double performance degree (which is a five year program) in four. For this reason, all of the theory, ear training, etc., that he took in pre-college, summer programs and high school, really benefited him in placement. However, we also know that had he chosen to go to a different school (or two), this might not have been possible.</p>

<p>So, there is much to consider, but a bored high school student in a college music class doesn’t sound like a good fit to me.</p>

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<p>S-mom: I know the Westminster has said they won’t take music transfer credits, but you can place into higher theory classes based on AP scores or testing. A 4 or 5 on the AP test will put you into Theory 2(which is the third level). Based on the organ comment, it sounds like your daughter plays keyboards, which is essential in passing the WCC theory classes. My D placed into 2, but dropped back because of that (she played violin, but only had limited piano). So, while you might not be able to actually transfer credits, her time wouldn’t be wasted.
The other reason I would think would have merit is that she’s going to be forced to sit in a classroom once she hits college. It is a discipline to learn to pay attention at a different pace than you might want to go at. Better she learn that now, than have to adjust all at once her freshman year.<br>
The only other thing that comes to mind: Is there a chance for her to graduate early? If she’s fitting in with the college students now, and is ready for the curriculum, she might benefit from graduating at the end of her junior year. In that case, she may want to skip the Music program and start doubling up on her required courses (usually english). Good luck.</p>

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<p>Just an update to everyone, and thanks for all the help.</p>

<p>DD and I talked with Duquesne about the content of musicianship 102 next spring semester, and dd is realizing that she will be very bored for another semester. Since we drive a full hour (or more) both ways to get there, and since she is doing a lot of busy work on homework, we both realize her practice has been cut down since term started. Putting that all together, dd decided she doesn’t want to return to Duquesne next semester, and I support her decision.</p>

<p>You know, I am realizing how quickly things change with high school students in music. Last year at this time, dd still didn’t have a firm idea where she stacked up musically with students around the country (there are no All-States in organ!), or if she should look at top conservatories and even be competitive. Applying to Duquesne and having to audition was a real test for her. (and passing the audition and entrance exams was a huge boost to her confidence. She went into a region-wide competition after her successful audition, and I know that success helped her so much.)</p>

<p>Then she won a partial scholarship to Eastman for the summer, fell in love with the school, had wonderful master classes with Dr. Higgs there, who encouraged her to apply to Eastman, and loved their theory classes. (she also disliked and sat through some boring classes there, so I know she can do this!)</p>

<p>She came home wanting to attend a top conservatory and with high expectations of Duquesne’s musicianship 101! Unfortunately, even tho Eastman accepts the credits (if she gets in!), the Duquesne program no longer matches her needs. Since Eastman is one of her picks now, auditions become so important, and her practice time all the more valuable.</p>

<p>In that sense, I think Duquesne, despite her boredom, has been successful in helping dd refine her goals and sense of where she wants to go in the music world. (and she learned to get that ID, find the bookstore, and figure out registration and class schedules. Good things!) And I, sadly, have to admit that staying in the greater Pittsburgh area is not the best future for dd - no matter how much I wanted her close to home in college. </p>

<p>Another growth experience for all, then. I would absolutely encourage anyone with kids in music to pursue this type of college-credit-in-high-school in area music schools if they exist near you. This program helped DD so much.</p>

<p>again, thanks to all for advice.</p>