<p>5pants, your sons would be ideal for A Comedy of Errors/The Boys from Syracuse! Have you ever seen a production?</p>
<p>Yes!</p>
<p>They just finished a run with Webster's production of "Comedy of Errors" in which they played the twin Antipholuses. There are pictures on the Webster Conservatory website if you are curious.</p>
<p>They played the Dromioes a few years ago with a local community theatre.</p>
<p>Getting back to topic....To all you up and coming students and parents please do not feel as though you are on eggshells with these decisions whether to do community theatre vs high school and etc. In the end it is your students' attitudes and preparation that will give them boyancy to float to the top. Most of all, know that being positive, upbeat, and a sponge to learn more is an ultimate breathe of fresh air to these college recruiters and auditors.</p>
<p>;) SUE</p>
<p>5pants/My D was just in "Hairspray" with Paul Vogt {(Edna) from MadTV, and now taking Edna to Broadway}, and as I am a twin, I got to talking with him about his, who he says stands in for him in roles!!! Can you imagine having the flexibility of providing you own look-alike and skilled alike understudy?
Well, actually you probably can, but it did seem highly improbable even to a twin!</p>
<p>tashmu,</p>
<p>How wonderful for your D! So exciting!</p>
<p>I did not know that Paul Vogt has a twin let alone his understudy also...how interesting. Hmmm, I would imagine my two would like to pick their brains.
I agree it does sound improbable....as we are always prepared for the probable.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing!</p>
<p>SUE</p>
<p>Chelle,</p>
<p>This is freaky because I was in exactly your situation this fall. I sort of have a reputation of getting lead roles in my school, so when I was unexpectedly cast as Antonio in Twelfth Night, even though I listed three other roles on the sheet which I would have happily taken (needless to say, all were given to underclassmen, I am a senior), I was terribly upset. I considered "boycotting" and trying out for a community theater show instead, but I really felt obligated to participate in my school's production. I took the role, and it was amazing: that role TRANSFORMED me as an actor. I never really considered how interesting Antonio is, even though he only has a few scenes. Playing a character completely different from me in so many ways (a rough, gay pirate) taught me so much about acting and about myself.</p>
<p>The moral of the story: Sometimes, small roles can be the most interesting and challenging roles. . I don't know your exact situation, but think carefully before giving up the role at your hs. It might be worth it.</p>
<p>good luck,
milky white</p>
<p>This is great! I,ve Known Peter & Paul Vogt since they were fourteen - they were in the "Boys From Syracuse" while in HS - and then had smaller parts the next year. A perfect tie-in to the original question on accaepting an ensemble role after having had a lead in a prior year! 5pants - if you pm me with an e-mail for your sons I will ask them if they would want to let your two "pick their brains"</p>
<p>Mtdog71, That is so cool! If you contact Paul (now I understand further his Peter Paul Mounds jokes...) Tell him Lou Ann from North Shore says hi and congratulations!!</p>
<p>This thread looks to be inactive of late (much like myself) but I will chime in because its an issue we certainly have faced and I think many to come will also face it. As such it is looking like our D will not be in one production at the hs during her senior year. </p>
<p>There is a code in theater that has been expressed by others above that if you audition, unless you have noted otherwise you take what you get. If you dont, dont expect to be looked upon favorably in the future. Thats fair enough and can be worked with but it also isnt just that simple. For most students who wish to go on to be accepted at a very competitive conservatory, time is not on there side. They dont have time to kill three months in an ensemble role just cause its fun. </p>
<p>Some times these kids will find themselves in the predicament of having to make decisions of choosing whats in their best interest versus the schools best interest. Those are not easy calls. Do the right thing but also keep in perspective that hs is the stepping stone and in short order your likely to hardly see any of those people ever again (for the most part)</p>
<p>The key to working through the politics for us has been communication. D auditioned for a role this fall at the HS and got an okay one in a musical (she is straight theater type). A week later she auditioned for a role at a local college and got a lead, we pulled her from the HS show. How did this happen without the wheels coming off? We saw it coming in advance. I took the hs drama director to coffee in August and said, she needs stage time as a lead. She is your strongest actor but not your strongest singer. What do you suggest we do. He said, she auditions for both if she gets a lead at the college she takes it. Had he not said that, I know what I was going to propose. This is just one example so to smooth out politics try to see things in advance and communicate, communicate, communicate. </p>
<p>As to resumes, they are important.
We have worked to build an impressive resume for our D. The training, lessons, roles,
etc. She has 4 college roles of which two are leads. Two at the local Community College and two at a local nationally known private university (nationally known for academics, not theater). Does her impressive resume get her in where she wants to go? No. But the entries on that piece of paper built the confidence and skill set to deliver the goods. From that perspective I see the resume as very important. </p>
<p>If you have a bit part that you do not want to list on the resume it is not necessary to do so. Parts are typically listed under Representative Roles. Which as it implies does not include everything you have ever done.</p>
<p>I think that having a good mix of ensemble work and leading work is what is best. Personally I think if you've done it, it should be on your resume! Maybe not at the top, but it should be on there, but obviously still adhearing to the one page guideline. :)</p>
<p>Showing that you have ability to work in an ensemble shows that you can work as a team. Personally unless for medical emergencies or if you have too much on your plate with school, private lessons, etc. I don't think that it shows a good attitude to just drop the ensemble/bit role for a supporting or leading role. Coming from another young student actor's standpoint (as well as having worked behind the scenes as a stage manager) it just looks like said student feels that they're too good and that such a role is beneath them. And whether they will admit it to you or not, directors, managers and also fellow actors will feel a little upset. I was in a college production (the one I stage managed) and when one of the cast dropped out because they didn't want the "bit role" that they were offered...well you wouldn't believe the talk that went on behind the scenes. </p>
<p>It's a fact that you're not always going to get the lead. Every performer you see on Broadway had to start from somewhere! Heck, look at the many talented ensemble members that have had leads regionally, yet they're in the ensemble of Broadway shows and (unfortunately) will probably not get their moment in the spotlight as a lead. But that's the way of the business.</p>
<p>I also think that you shouldn't do a lead just because you want or feel you NEED to have a lead role on your resume. You should do what you find the most rewarding and fun! If that's a part in the ensemble, then have fun in that ensemble!! If it's the lead, then have a blast with that! But I feel that if you've made a commitment, you should stick to it! I think it shows maturity and true humbleness on your part as an actor and as a team player.</p>
<p>I think that "honoring your commitment" is what is the crucial lesson here. My S occasionally would accept an ensemble position then something better would come up and he'd want to pursue it and we always insisted that he complete his commitment. We feel that is a character building life lesson. And also teaches to not rush into things, to stop and think first.</p>
<p>Absolutely!! BreakIntoSong and srw.....I wholeheartedly love what you both wrote. Character building and humble pie.....are important life lessons....which radiant from the kids who learn them.</p>
<p>Frankly, folks, from what those in the know (read: those who have been through this) have said: It is NOT mainly a student's resume that is going to get him or her into a good college program. It's what he or she brings at the audition and interview (and, in some cases) on his or her college transcripts. That means, I would think, that the roles students take are mostly important for skill-building and for, well, fun! It's not as if a successful actor needs to finish a certain number of steps (roles) in a certain order to get to pass GO and collect an Equity card. (Sorry, just finished a game of Monopoly with my younger D! I think she is going to be a financier. But that's another topic for another board ... :)) I also agree with those here who have said that taking an ensemble role that you committed to first over a lead role that comes along later is an important lesson in character development.
Wally, I have to disagree with you about a kid probably never seeing or encountering people from high school again in his or her future life on the stage. I always tell my D that one never knows when she will meet up again or encounter someone she has met in another setting at another time. (As I put it, you never know who is going to be sitting on the other side of a table at an audition in the future.) You also never know who knows who. Besides (and most important of all, to me) is that if you make a commitment to one role, you don't throw over that role when something more attractive comes along. (Reminds me of the old, tired story of the man who throws over his first wife -- the one that supported him as he slogged his way through medical or law school -- for the cute blonde in the office. Tacky.) Wally, this is NOT meant as commentary on your D's situation, as you guys were smart enough to talk to the drama teacher ahead of time. I am talking about in general.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I think it's all relative. The students at my D's HS are asked if they wish to accept the roles that they are given and are not judged for declining. Everyone has to weigh the worth of their time and it is not for me or anyone here to decide what someone elses time is worth. Some schools have hundreds of kids auditioning and directors that want to spread the roles around. I say go with whatever you can find the best growth experience. Sometimes a student has the opportunity to work with a far better director, choreographer and musical director somewhere else. The key for me is that you can't quit once rehearsals begin. Only you can decide what will be the best experience for you or your child.</p>
<p>I don't really see that "building an impressive resume" is the key here. When it comes down to it, it's what they bring to the audition that counts. There was a mom who used to post here whose daughter had a very limited resume because she decided on MT later than most. She is now a junior MT at U Michigan! It just really wasn't that important because it was obvious that she was that good! There are a lot of kids out there who have been leads in big productions, many in big cities and professional theaters. Maybe if it's your only lead that you will be able to list, you should do it. I still tend to think your responsibility lies with your original commitment, otherwise we are just telling our kids yet again that "bigger is better". </p>
<p>I also don't agree with approaching a director to say that my kid NEEDS stage time as a lead. If they are the best, they WILL be the lead! I have had a great relationship with many of my daughter's directors over the years but would never think to get involved in their decision making process. I believe if it's meant to happen it will happen and it's not for me to be the stage mom. My 2 cents should not have anything to do with my daughter being cast in anything! Just my opinion.</p>
<p>kaysmom, amen to what you said! My guess is that the majority of parents of aspiring performers know that approaching a director about his/her child's needs is a big no-no, for a lot of reasons. I frankly wouldn't want my D to get a lead role because she "needed" it. I would want her to get it because she is the right person for the role. I also think that when parents interfere that way (and sorry for the blunt word), it's very off-putting for a director. It's like trying to tell the director his/her business, and may in the end actually prejudice the director against your kid. (Proverbial stage parents are a giant turn off, for sure. I have heard teachers talk about how, once they cast a musical or play, they brace themselves for the onslaught of phone calls from screaming parents who do everything from crying and yelling to threatening not to contribute to a school's fundraising efforts, etc.) Who wants to be one of those parents? Not most of us, I wouldn't think.</p>
<p>NotMamaRose & Kaysmom </p>
<pre><code> Was Wally really "trying to influence a directors casting?" I didn't see it like that, but maybe I'm just naive. He met with the director last spring, right? It was not like he was raging and screaming at the director after the cast list went up. Theatre is an important teacher of loyalty and committment, but did his D abandon a child or a bit part in a HS show?
</code></pre>
<p>It's great to see such diversity in the responses on this topic. I just had to comment after reading all the posts.</p>
<p>My D is an extremely committed and responsible girl. She would never entertain the idea of dropping a lesser part for a lead. We both agree building good character and being a team player is key. </p>
<p>The disagreement is whether or not you must accept an ensemble part when you auditioned for the lead. I do not believe you have accepted a part just because you auditioned. Especially when you auditioned for a lead and you get offered an ensemble part. Also, I do not believe you are obligated to accept the ensemble part. I think everyone involved, the director and fellow students, should be supportive of the decision and not take it personally. At my d's High School you must sign a contract and accept the part before rehearsals begin. All of our discussion and decision making occured before signing the contract. </p>
<p>I truly believe the situation is different for H.S. kids who are just in the musicals to have fun and for those who wish to pursue it as a career. There is not a whole lot of time to build skills, and develop talent and I supported my D. totally when she decided to pursue a more challenging, skill building and growth opportunity. </p>
<p>I think it took a lot of maturity on her part, because it did mean missing out on all the fun and many of the parties. She was willing to do this in pursuit of "growing as an actress".</p>
<p>In the end she went ahead and accepted the part and plans to give it her all, as usual. I know this will be difficult for her because there are other circumstances involved. </p>
<p>Personally I think students who wish to pursue Musical Theater should choose a variety of roles for "skill building" and development. I think they should be selective as to what they choose. Once accepting a role they should follow through no matter what else comes along. The "fun" should be there naturally or they shouldn't be pursuing this as a career.</p>
<p>....and for all you High School directors out there...you need to recognize that students pursuing MT as a career have different goals than most of your other students. If they don't fit the part by all means don't offer it to them, but don't take it personnally if they decline. In fact encourage them, to do what is best for their college preparation, not what is best for you. "Do the play for the fun of it", is not a good reason for most of these kids. To quote my daughter, "I am in theater because I need to be here, it's a burning desire inside me. I don't do it solely for the fun. When I get to perform at my H.S. with my friends the "fun" is the icing on the cake. Chelle</p>
<p>For the record, Sarahsmom42, I wasn't addressing Wally or his D's situation. In fact, in my first post, I tried to make that clear. If I didn't, well, that's my own shortcoming and I apologize. I was addressing, in general, the whole idea of parents approaching a show's director to say what part their kid "needs" or "deserves." This just happened to my own sister, who runs a drama club at the elementary school at which she teaches. A mom filled out her daughter's info sheet (anyone could sign up for the club, but had to fill out a form) and wrote "My D should be the lead in every show because she does a lot of community theater." My sister found this both funny (I mean, how can you not laugh at the pushiness of some people) and off putting. Also, as far as "auditioning for a lead" and then taking an ensemble role, well, in my D's experience, one just auditions. Yes, in some community theater groups, auditioners can and do specify which parts they would like to be considered for, and can then also say "yes" or "no" to: I would be willing to accept other parts/ensemble if thus cast." But in her middle and high school experiences, kids auditioned IN GENERAL and were cast according to what the director found fitting. So in that situation, you took what you were given or just were not in the show. Period.</p>
<p>Sarahsmom42,</p>
<p>Maybe I misunderstood the way that Wally meant his post but what I read was to the effect that he took the drama director in August, not last spring, to coffee to say his daughter needed stage time as a lead. He also said his was trying to smooth out politics and try to "see things in advance" in terms of what the audition season would bring for his daughter. (At least that's how I took it). </p>
<p>My point is that it isn't really a parent's place to see anything in advance. Actually the parent should be the last to know, after the student finds out. Our kids are all faced with decisions of which show to do or which one may be lead to a better part, but I just don't believe it's right to hint to the director of one show that if my child doesn't get lead stage time they will be going elsewhere. </p>
<p>I certainly know she is not abandoning a child. I mean in the scope of all of this: worries about auditions, letters, acceptances, rejections...none of that compares to life's more serious isssues. But the topic was posted about switching a part and I just gave my opinion. Isn't that what we are all just doing? I kind of thought this was meant to be lighthearted.</p>
<p>NotMamaRose,
I can totally understand how frustrated your sister must have been! I'm directing "Annie" right now and I can tell you that every single one of the girls who auditioned wanted to be "Annie." Before I cast a play I spent a lot of time talking to the kids about the importance of being a team player, having a positive attitude, trusting your fellow cast members and making the ensemble SHINE. I also showed them the process by which I cast a play. I tell them about the fact that sometimes I have to cast big kids as adults and small kids as kids and that those that have proven to me that they can be trusted may be the ones that I cast. Let's face it, in a musical, most of the cast is in the ensemble!
I think that expecting kids to play whatever part they get is crucial at the elementary and middle school level. It teaches kids that they can count on each other, that you start what you finish, that every role is important in a play. (By the way, my monkey shaped up, had the time of her life, and is playing "Annie" in this performance!) As the department head at Ithaca told us at auditions, "Many of you have been the stars at your HS, but if you are accepted here, you will be EXPECTED to play whatever role you get with enthusiasm from freshman year up."
As far as I'm concerned, if a HS director knows that his/her HS student is auditioning for MT he or she should be advising that student regularly on what roles to audition for and what roles to accept. I have four friends directing HS theatre in the Boston area right now. All of them are working closely with students who are auditioning for MT around the country. These directors are looking out for the well being of their aspiring college hopefuls and grooming the next generation as well. As I said, these directors offer their kids A CHOICE, they have the kids sign committment agreement and at that point, if you drop out, you have let everyone down. This has been MY experience, but I can certainly understand that in some schools the program would be crippled if everyone who was talented bolted whenever they had a "better party to go to!" 99 percent of the time it's best to take whatever role you get in HS but there are acceptions and it sounds like a MT college discussion board might have a few of them.
I don't have all of the answers, but I do know that I want people to feel free to share their experiences and that I'm not here to judge anyone. I'm just a parent who came here looking for support and understanding from folks in similar situations. Our family is anxiously waiting for answers from Ithaca and SU and I find myself glued to the boards hoping to here that some kind of word is out. We're all anxious and hoping for the best for our kids and I wish all of you the best.</p>