<p>Kaysmom,
I'm sorry if I sounded testy. It's been a long couple of days and I'm getting really anxious about everything on the horizon. You are probably one of the most supportive and positive people that I've seen on this board. Please know that no offense was intended.
K</p>
<p>Sarahsmom, you made me smile with your description of casting "Annie!" Thanks for the word pictures. I certainly agree with you that hs directors working with kids who aspire to attend college for MT should certainly be working all the while with those students and in discussions about what programs are right for them, what summer programs are worthwhile, etc. It's an ongoing process. Best of luck to your D with Syracuse and Ithaca ... me and my D visited SU in October and my D really liked that program, despite the fact that when arrived on campus, it was pouring rain and began to sleet. (I grew up about 15 mins outside Syracuse, so I just nodded in recognition and wished I had remembered that fall there is like winter where we live now.) Keep us posted. I agree with your assertion that we all need to support one another.</p>
<p>Sarahsmom42,</p>
<p>Thanks for the compliment! No offense taken. If we all had the same opinion on things, I guess this site wouldn't make for as interesting reading as it does sometimes! :)</p>
<p>kaysmom</p>
<p>Thankfully, in our HS, the director posts a cast list, and if the kids want the parts assigned, they accept. If not, no harm done. My D decided to skip auditioning at all this year, because last year's play was poorly run and took too much time. Most kids' grades actually went down because rehearsals went til 8, 9 even 10pm! 5 days a week! Not just tech week, either. Last year my D was in the ensemble, and still had this grueling schedule. She has made her decision to drop out of the drama club because what she gets out of it just doesn't match what she has to put in anymore. She still does community theater and enjoys it. Lots of this decision had to do with the skill of the director, also.</p>
<p>I really have to chime in here about the "you never know factor"...</p>
<p>CLEARLY, this is a completely different situation then what we are talking about here...but it still proves the point. Recently, at a community theatre (i'll Call it "Theatre A") did pirates.. and one of the leading players, missed dress rehearsal, because he was auditioning for an equity production. The next summer, a different community theatre ("Theatre B") was holding auditions for "Beauty and the Beast" and cast this same boy as the Beast. When the the director from theatre A found out, she marched herself down to theatre B and told the directors of that show to watch out for him, that he was a quitter and that he didn't deserve the part. Well, the directors of show B actually recanted, and took the part of the Beast away saying that he wasn't trustworthy. </p>
<p>so...i guess you really never know.</p>
<p>Karma will usually win out in the end (thank you _simplywicked for providing a story that so clearly illustrates that point)</p>
<p>Character is more important than talent, fancy resumes, head shots, and even good grades.</p>
<p>Tanya, omigosh, at my D's former hs (a private all-girls prep school), rehearsals started at 7 and often went on until (by the time the kids were home) 11:30 or even midnight! That's one of the reasons we let my D audition for and attend the arts school where she is now. There, she gets almost four hours a day of actor training during the longer-than-average school day. But at least she isn't routinely out until midnight at rehearsals, unless it is tech week for a community show.</p>
<p>haha, rehearsals at my high school run from 4:30 until you are done. The school closes at 11, but often times the janitors will let us finish up until 11:30. It is really ridiculous sometimes, but hey you gotta do what you gotta do.</p>
<p>simplywicked,<br>
Your point about burning bridges is well taken. You just never know who you're going to po! As I said before, once you've signed your contract you'd better stick to it or look out!</p>
<p>Glad I could stimulate two pages of comments but truthfully folks this is exactly why I have not been around here in some time. You have to read what people write if you are going to comment on it. I will point out that some of you have clearly confused the notion of ensemble as an attitude verses an ensemble role, they are not the same.</p>
<p>Notmamarose & Kaysmom
I wrote;</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does her impressive resume get her in where she wants to go? No. But the entries on that piece of paper built the confidence and skill set to deliver the goods. From that perspective I see the resume as very important.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Operative words, "built" and "perspective". My statement clearly means its not about a piece of paper. Not sure why its so hard to conceptualize that an impressive resume is what brings the goods to the audition. </p>
<p>Chelle wrote</p>
<p>
[quote]
I truly believe the situation is different for H.S. kids who are just in the musicals to have fun and for those who wish to pursue it as a career. There is not a whole lot of time to build skills, and develop talent and I supported my D. totally when she decided to pursue a more challenging, skill building and growth opportunity.</p>
<p>I think it took a lot of maturity on her part, because it did mean missing out on all the fun and many of the parties. She was willing to do this in pursuit of "growing as an actress".</p>
<p>....and for all you High School directors out there...you need to recognize that students pursuing MT as a career have different goals than most of your other students. If they don't fit the part by all means don't offer it to them, but don't take it personally if they decline. In fact encourage them, to do what is best for their college preparation, not what is best for you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Chelle, I think that is the most intelligent well reasoned statement I have ever read on CC. I had no choice but to take the Drama instructor to coffee because he had amassed a long line of decision that where in his best interst. </p>
<p>Notmama wrote;</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wally, I have to disagree with you about a kid probably never seeing or encountering people from high school again in his or her future life on the stage. I always tell my D that one never knows when she will meet up again or encounter someone she has met in another setting at another time. (As I put it, you never know who is going to be sitting on the other side of a table at an audition in the future.)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Notmama,</p>
<p>You are going to have to step out of your box to understand this one. Your D goes to an arts HS, I am pretty sure there are none of them in our state and pretty sure there are not any in the entire pacific northwest. Our D HS has been around for 40 years and there has never been a student who went on to be a professional actor and none have attended top acting conservatories. Other than me, thanks to CC and other, nobody around here could tell you what constitutes an acting conservatory much less where they are. </p>
<p>Kaysmom</p>
<p>
[quote]
I also don't agree with approaching a director to say that my kid NEEDS stage time as a lead. If they are the best, they WILL be the lead!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Again, you have to read what I wrote. The director chose a musical for the fall. My kid is a straight actor and is the only one in the schools history to date that has a chance to get into a top conservatory much less work professionally. He has an MFA in acting from what is typically ranked the third best program in the country has lots of equity points and is currently doing TV commercials. I asked him last year if D worked hard and got into a good program could she be a professional actor. His response was, she has been acting at a professionally level since she was a sophomore. When she is on stage it doesnt matter what else is going on, all you want to do is watch her.</p>
<p>It's no different than the hs athelete who has college ambissions. Are they going to meet those ambitions being thrid string water boy? No. My statment was a statement in fact and he knew it which is why he was so accomodating. She needed lead role stage time. Statement of fact. Top athletes need game time, no difference. </p>
<p>
[quote]
My point is that it isn't really a parent's place to see anything in advance.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am not sure what to say to that other than thinking ahead is my definition of intelligence and leadership.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Again, you have to read what I wrote. The director chose a musical for the fall. My kid is a straight actor and is the only one in the schools history to date that has a chance to get into a top conservatory much less work professionally. He has an MFA in acting from what is typically ranked the third best program in the country has lots of equity points and is currently doing TV commercials. I asked him last year if D worked hard and got into a good program could she be a professional actor. His response was, ?she has been acting at a professionally level since she was a sophomore?. ?When she is on stage it doesn?t matter what else is going on, all you want to do is watch her?.</p>
<p>I am not sure what to say to that other than thinking ahead is my definition of intelligence and leadership.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No offense WallyWorld but it shouldn't be your responsibility to make all these decisions; it should be your daughter's. If this is what your daughter wants to do for a living, then she has to start taking her career into her own hands. It should be her decision what role she wants to persue. I'm not saying you should wash your hands of anything, but you should be there to help her if she asks, not doing everything for her. I don't know you or your daughter, so I'm only judging on what you have posted on this board, and truthfully what you seem to be doing (in my opinion) is walking the line into the relm of a "stage parent". I'm not trying to be mean or nasty, just stating my opinion.</p>
<p>And I go on the bandwagon with the fact that telling the director that she needs "stage time as a lead" is not your place. If singing isn't her strength (which from how you described, it's not) then why have her audition for the musical at all if she wants to persue straight theater? You could have avoided that whole meeting and just focused on auditioning for the play. Personally, if she was in the ensemble in a musical or better yet a bit role, I think it would show much more versitility on her resume and make her more marketable to potential schools. I also don't agree that the "goods" are strictly found on a resume when auditioning at a top conservatory, they are found in the audition room. If you don't have a good audition then no matter if you've played Macbeth or Hamlet in the past, you're not going to get cast! It's just that simple!</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's no different than the hs athelete who has college ambissions. Are they going to meet those ambitions being thrid string water boy? No. My statment was a statement in fact and he knew it which is why he was so accomodating. She needed lead role stage time. Statement of fact. Top athletes need game time, no difference.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is a huge difference in that statement. Much less athletes go pro than actors. You also basically compared being in the ensemble to being a "third string water boy" which is just nonsense. And a bit insulting to those that are in ensembles. Theater is a craft and it takes decades to truly master, no matter how much talent you were born with you will be learning and developing the rest of your life! An athlete is finished with their careers by their mid-thirties (possibly later depending on the sport) and if you're not up to snuff by high school, you can basically kiss a career in the pros goodbye. Not so with being an actor! You don't need to attend a top conservatory to make it in the business, the path for both stage and film actors is so varied that no one way is really right. You can find training anywhere! If you don't do sports in high school and are not at the top in the nation, well then you're never going to get into a pro or possibly even minor league team.</p>
<p>If your daughter is as talented as you have said and you've been told, then she should have no problem getting into at least one of the top conservatories. If she brings the goods to the audition room and has great recommendations (which do count quite highly) then it won't matter if she had nothing but "extra roles" all over her resume. If she's got talent they'll know without having to consult a laundry list of roles on a paper.</p>
<p>My two cents worth: I have been told , more than once, that a resume will NOT make or break entrance into a top program. It is NICE TO KNOW what a person has done but what happens in that room is the clincher. I also have several good friends who cast professionally and I have been told the same thing - they glance at a resume and then put it aside. Does it subconsciously play into a decision? Maybe....</p>
<p>I happen to be of the opinion that a role is a role. Most shows give you the option of listing ensemble as an option. (I just auditioned for a local production and checked no to ensemble as it would just be too to juggle - and I was only an option for one role anyway). There is much to be gained in the ensemble, just as there is much to be gained in a lead role. The lessons are different but all important. </p>
<p>Wally, if what you did works for you and your D - great! Personally, my kid would had been mortified - she is of the opinion that casting decisions and questions are her realm alone, and ' thanks, but no thanks' Mom for any help.
When choices come aboout for ensemble or nothing, I cant make the choice. She has to decide what makes sense. </p>
<p>This is a tough business, and a tough time for our kids. We want to help but not be 'helicopters' .....the line is individual and very fuzzy sometimes.</p>
<p>Happy New Year to all!
MikksMom</p>
<p>"There is much to be gained in the ensemble, just as there is much to be gained in a lead role. The lessons are different but all important. "</p>
<p>I believe this is only true to a certain degree. It depends on who is directing the Musical and the experience of the student.</p>
<p>Hi, Wally! You are right that my D attends an arts high school, but I am not sure why that is even cogent to the discussion we were all having, which (originally!) was whether it is kosher :) for a kid to refuse an ensemble part in his or her high school show in hopes of getting something "bigger" in the community. That was the original question. I and others posited that we believed there was something to be gained by being in the ensemble. I also pointed out that I have always told my own D that "you never know who is going to be on the other side of an audition table" in the future. I said that years before my D got into her arts school and I hope she remembers it years after she graduates. It seems you are thinking that, because she goes to an arts hs, there is a greater chance that she will later encounter some of the kids she went to school with in the professional world, and perhaps that's true. (However, you would be surprised, probably, by the number of kids who graduate from arts hs and go on NOT to pursue the arts. But that's another post! :)) But I said it years before, because throughout my life I have noted what a small world it truly is and how people whose lives would seemingly never overlap often do, in surprising ways. For instance, last week I attended a funeral for a local businessman and was shocked to see, in the church, a quite well known professional actor who is not, to my knowledge, related to the deceased. You just never know. Wally, of course you are the only person who knows your own D's specific situation, and clearly you know what is best for her. From what you have said, she is amazingly talented and will no doubt do beautifully wherever she goes. (As an aside, I am sure we would all love to hear how college auditions are going, as we wish her the best.) But let us also remember that the purpose of this list is to discuss things and share experiences and opinions: that's the raison d'etre of CC, right? I don't post anything without wanting a response and I don't post anything expecting everyone to agree with me. That, in my opinion, would be boring. :)</p>
<p>Wow! CC has not been this exciting in the past few months! Do you realize how great this is? This is a topic that one could not easily discuss at a coffee with other parents at school because of the politics involved! Why make it personal or get defensive?</p>
<p>Chelle, your point... "It depends on who is directing the Musical and the experience of the student." is very well taken...</p>
<p>For high school music directors we have known and loved, Casting skills, experience, and artistic sensibilities vary greatly. There are directors who have a lot of experience and who teach and direct kids wisely. Many just simply lack the finesse to really help advance skills in ALL the kids who come their way. </p>
<p>My d is also the first pro-kid her school has ever seen. Her MT director also teaches her Drama and directing courses. As a teacher of these skills she has so much to offer our D and we are grateful. She has already promised our d a letter of recommendation for college, but this is based on 3 years of teaching her upper level drama courses.</p>
<p>Our d made the decision during her freshman year that she would have to give up so much that is important to her in order to do her school shows.</p>
<p>Reason being that the 3 months of rehearsal for the show is interminable. The rehearsals begin at 7pm and last until whenever(11pm - 12am on a school night) 5 nights per week. As an MT director, she insists that the entire cast stay for all 5 rehearsals per week, with no allowances.</p>
<p>Between 5 dance classes, voice lessons, schoolwork and other activities , these would all need to cease for the 3 months of rehearsals. So my d made the decision that this is too much to give up when she has had wonderful opportunities in other more pro venues. These outside directors always ask her for her conflicts up front and work around these conflicts graciously.</p>
<p>Again, we are grateful for all this high school director does for our d in drama and directing classes, but as an MT director she may have less to offer our d. (Still has a lot to offer her students and her casts who love to perform).</p>
<p>It's difficult to have these discussions with non-MT CC parents. Often other parents in our town will ask, is D doing the school show. They know that she acts professionally. I do not wish to offend anyone when I tell them "no, she is not ding the school show."As a familiy we are huge supporters of youth theater, both school and community theater in so many ways. It is simply that our d is best supported to grow and learn more about her craft in other than the high school venue.
Again, we do not wish to offend, only support our kid's desire to grow as an artist. These are tough but often necessary choices.</p>
<p>I've posted this before, but in high school my son was similar to the person in the previous post. He did theatre, voice lessons, and dance classes outside of school, including many musicals and regular plays in professional and community theatre in our city. He did not do a school play after first semester ninth grade, by his own choice. His school offered straight plays but not musicals. He chose to participate in their very excellent traditional school choir instead. His school was very supportive of his involvement in the community and would always let him miss school for performances or rehearsals as needed (mostly because he also kept up his grades).</p>
<p>mamalu and Ericsmom, certainly what you say makes sense, and a lot of it! Certainly, the student who is taking voice, dance and other classes outside of school with the intent to pursue MT in college and professionally may not, in the end, have time to take part in a high school musical or play if the value (including the fun value!) of that activity would preclude the value of the outside lessons. As we all know, there are only so many hours in the day (and night!) At my D's previous hs, rehearsals ran from about 6 to 11 p.m. five nights a week and often all day on Saturday on the weekends, which meant that -- essentially -- being in a play or musical meant NO lessons of any other kind. That was a key factor in our decision to allow our D to audition for her current school (a public arts hs). Our kids (and their parents) need to weigh and measure the value of time spent, especially as college auditions approach. It's great to read all the opinions here. As someone else said: it's hard to talk about this stuff with parents whose kids are not involved in theater. Hooray for this board! :)</p>
<p>My daughter sounds a lot like mamalu's daughter and probably most of your children. Dance, Voice, Monologue Coaching, community theater, piano, high grades, clubs, sports, school chorus, community chorus, etc. The school directors are very strict so we usually end up eating in the car and racing from one activity to the next. D never misses a rehearsal so all outside school activities have to be flexible for the school plays. She will think very very carefully before auditioning for the school drama or musical next year. </p>
<p>D lives for musicals, so the sacrifice was always worth it. She also knew she was gaining experience from it. It's just that at some point you know she needs more to keep growing.</p>
<p>Even if you are only doing theatre outside of school and not at school, it means many sacrifices, and the students must still make choices. For my son, he started taking dance in 9th grade (after having participated in theatre and singing for several years), but he never really got serious about dance until the last couple of years of HS, including summer intensive programs, because he was always in theatre rehearsals or performances and had to miss dance classes for which he was registered. As I've posted before, in senior year he chose to wait until spring for a summer show to audition for another professional musical production. During senior year, his main activity outside of school was dancing many hours a week and, of course, doing college auditions. Again, this was his choice. Other students who have grown up dancing and are already proficient might make other choices for outside of school activities.</p>