<p>The school district where I raised my kids had h.s./middle school starting at 7:10 a.m.-2:10 p.m.; elementary grades ran 8:20a.m.-3:20 p.m.</p>
<p>Learning would have been better for all ages if they’d reversed the shifts. </p>
<p>Bus department budget and h.s. sports were the overriding reasons. The drivers ran all the older schoolkids’ routes, then ran around again to handle all the elem. routes. In a poor district, this meant fewer busses and more employment hours for each bus driver. </p>
<p>Teaching elem kids, I knew many had been awake since 6 a.m. watching TV in their homes. Many woke long before their parents. I would have preferred teaching them in their early, bright hours rather than after 3 HOURS of cartoons.</p>
<p>H.S. had to end by 2:10 p.m. so the teams could get to the other towns to play, and return all before 6 p.m. Those who didn’t have sports or h.s. EC’s like music went home and got in a good deal of trouble in their parents’ homes in the afternoon hours. </p>
<p>Bus drivers could have easily run the routes with the young ones on early shift. So I assume it was h.s. sports as the tail wagging the dog.</p>
<p>A problem I am still having as a college student is no matter how sleep deprived I am, I will not under any circumstances be tired from 9-12 in the evening. I can get four hours of sleep, have to literally drag my half-unconscious body out of bed, and am on the verge of passing out the entire day-- I get my second wind at 9pm and even if I go to bed will just lie awake until 2am. I don’t nap during the day and I try to get some exercise in the afternoon and not eat after 6 or 7 when I can help it to combat this, and I have a half hour to an hour quiet period before I want to go to bed to help me wind down, but nothing is working. I had the same problem in high school. I’d love to have a 10pm bedtime, but how am I supposed to make myself sleep? Showers wake me up, reading keeps me awake, tv keeps me awake, meditating keeps me awake, a warm drink makes me awake–I am really out of ideas. It is really not just a matter of forcing yourself to go to bed for some people. I’ll be in bed, wide awake for hours, and nothing happens-- until 2 or 3am. Even if I only got two hours of sleep the night before, or none, I am awake at that time of day no matter what I do.</p>
<p>Haven’t read the whole thread so don’t know if this has been addressed, but our public system schedule is affected in part by needing too have the busses available to make 2 or 3 runs morning and afternoon-- to elementary, middle and HS. Most parents would not like having their 5 yr olds waiting at the busstop in the cold or the dark at 7 am, and the after school activities arent as demanding for an elementary school kid, so lucky them, they get the later start time. I think most of the busses run at least two routes each day (ie and elementary an HS or middle and HS) so there simply has to be a schedule to allow this. If someone would like to infuse our system with sufficient funds to buy enough busses, gas and pay enough drivers to have a bus for each route, then they could adjust the school schedule. Many HSers drive, but not all. There have to be busses available.</p>
<p>As was mentioned earlier, HSers have a ton of after school activities (practices, sporting events, etc) and there has to be time available to travel to/from the events. My kids often didnt get home til 7 on a weekday . Then comes meals, HW, etc. Made for long days. Yes there are lots of studies on circadean rhythm, hormones, sleep patterns etc in kids, but there simply aren’t enough hours in the day. Maybe we can work on that!</p>
<p>^^^ There’s my nominee for the Nobel Prize in something - anyone who comes up with an extra hour every day. :)</p>
<p>Our school system is like those jym626 mentions, with 3 bus runs twice daily. The hs schedule is pretty reasonable - 7:45 AM start, 2:10 PM dismissal, an activity period till 3 PM, athletic practices from 3 on. Reasonable it was, but when I had 3 kids in 3 schools who all had to cycle through the same bathroom, reveille was 6 AM for the high schooler. </p>
<p>Our kids picked their bedtimes to accommodate ECs, jobs, and schoolwork. It was a rare night when everyone was home by 9:30, let alone in bed. Bedtimes for the high schoolers were between 10 PM and midnight - they were very efficient students and learned to manage the workload in small increments of time, when available. When ds’ dance school had rehearsals, for instance, they (and all of the other dancers) had their books out and studied when they weren’t actually onstage. I always marveled at their powers of concentration. </p>
<p>It would be great if adolescents (and everyone, really) could get all the sleep they need. I don’t think that adjusting the school schedule could be more than a bandaid for the situation, though. One thing about my kids’ hs sleep schedule - it was good practice for real life. They’ll probably go to bed between 10 PM and midnight, and rise around 6 AM, for most of their working lives. :)</p>
<p>Thanks, frazzled. After we find those extra hours, we can work on cold fusion :)</p>
<p>My kids school was 30 miles from our house. When they rode the bus, it was an hour ride each way. When they drove, we bit our fingernails as they travelled in the early morning and afternon/evening rushour traffic on our crazy highways. Glad that is over with-- but they both learned to drive well on highways. Bonus education, I guess.</p>
<p>“So I assume it was h.s. sports as the tail wagging the dog…”</p>
<p>Isn’t that pretty well what it’s become? I mean, the hours they spend on sports versus academics these days… And for what?</p>
<p>I was a HS athlete in three sports, and later went on to compete in international athletic competition. I’m all for participation in sport, but not at the expense of a single academic lesson. Not one.</p>
<p>Buses, huh, what a concept. (Parents have been lobbying for buses for our school district for years, but there is just no money…) Elementary starts at 8:30, out at 2:45. Junior high starts at 8:05, out at 2:50. High school 1st period starts at 8:12, sixth period out at 2:35. But, if you have a 0 period (and my older daughter had honors trig in 0 period) that would start at 7:15. And if you have 7th period, that would get out at 3:30. In general the athletes have PE 7th period, so they just skip that for games or practices. Marching band is 0 period, so they can start earlier during competition season. But there are academic classes all eight periods, and sometimes schedules are just stupid.</p>
<p>Last fall, we moved from about 10 miles out in the country to a house right across the street from the HS. With two kids in HS, the convenience is paying of big time for us. Our three kids went from spending 2-2.5 hrs. on a school bus each day to just one of them (4th grader) spending 10 minutes on a bus now. So they leave the house 1 hour later and get home 1 hour earlier, on average, than they did at our old place. The kids LOVE it. </p>
<p>What do they do with those extra 2 hours? Usually watch the Disney channel or get on FaceBook. Ugh! </p>
<p>Please forgive this story; I shouldn’t distract but I think it’s just cute. After you read it, PLEASE go back to topic…</p>
<p>My family-of-origin ran ridiculously late hours always. At age 24, months after my parents’ move to a tiny college town in rural central New Hampshire, I drove in at midnight, eager to see their Victorian farmhouse and new life. My mom taught Business and Econ but couldn’t give directions to save her life, and no houses had numbers. She told me, “we’re the only people awake at 1 a.m.” That’s exactly how I found them, lights ablaze. </p>
<p>The only one who saw through it all was my baby brother. Starting in h.s., he alone woke hours before school began to do his homework. A fine student; he graduated Law School. Even today I know never to phone him after 9:00 p.m. except in emergency. </p>
<p>Regretfully we live hundreds of miles apart. At the end of a recent visit to NH, staying in his home, I requested a 5:00 a.m. ride to the Trailways bus station for the 2-hour ride to Boston’s Logan Airport. He was happy to help me there, mentioning he had court the next morning. </p>
<p>Next morning, as we walked to his car under a starry New Hampshire sky, I noticed he was in slippers, bathrobe and pajamas. On a hanger, slung over his shoulders, was a handsome 2-piece suit and tailored shirt. Unable to form a complete sentence, I said, “Court clothes?” He explained in lyrical prose how he’d drop me off, then head for his office to change clothes and gather his thoughts before court. </p>
<p>I met my plane and didn’t have to ask him whether he won in court; I just know he did.</p>
<p>At my old school, I had to get up at 5:40 so I could be at the bus by 6:20, to be dropped off at school around 7:45. School started at 8:04, I think. I was the first person on the bus in a very rural district, so that was the major problem. To say it was hellish was an understatement. x_x</p>
<p>My current school starts at 8:15, but morning assembly begins at 8. It was a subtle change, but the extra few minutes of leeway was always nice. Plus, no buses, so it is up to us/our parents to drive, which cuts down on unnecessary travel times. I now get up at 6:40 to leave around 7:20 and get to school at 7:50. It’s much nicer, though the arrival time is the same. I get around 7 hours of sleep a night if I’m not loaded with homework - at my old middle school, I was getting probably around 5. I find that, in general, my stress-building level is lower, even though the workload is much greater. So, the time shift was extremely helpful.</p>
<p>“Even today I know never to phone him after 9:00 p.m. except in emergency…”</p>
<p>Had to laugh. My brother, who has always been a night owl and whose grades suffered a lot in HS because of it, had a bad habit of calling me after 10:00 p.m. and waking me up long after we got our young children to sleep and the wife and I went to bed. To break him of this habit, I started letting the answering machine take his call, then I’d call him when I got up in the morning - 'round about 6:00 or 6:30… LOL! </p>
<p>Only took a few “return” phone calls before he got it… :D</p>
<p>Some folks are just “night owls” I guess. I’ve never known him to go to sleep before 10:00 pm unless it was after a long hard day of hunting. But I do think it affected his academics back in school. I always fell asleep no matter where I was, at 9:00 p.m. or soon after. And was up before 7:00 every day. And I think that helped me.</p>
<p>The idea of starting high school later was not based on the convenience or lifestyle choices of teens, but rather on the growing body of research that shows teens experience biological changes that affect sleep patterns. The problem is more complex than telling teens to go to bed earlier – there are physical reasons why they may be unable to fall asleep at an earlier hour. Much of the research on this topic has been done at the University of Minnesota and by Mary Carskadon, professor of Psychiatry and Human Behavior at Brown University School of Medicine.
<p>While it may be related to growth or melatonin, most people can retrain their sleep cycles if they suffer from a Circadian Rhythm Sleep Disorder ( “Circadian rhythm sleep disorders occur when people’s internal sleep-wake schedule (clock) does not align with the earth’s cycle of darkness (night) and light (day)”). You do it when you travel across time zones, and with changes in daylight savings time. I am not saying it wouldn’t be nice to accommodate what seems more natural, and in fact I am fortunate enough to be able to design my work schedule so that I can go to bed late, and get up late. </p>
<p>But what some young people may not be appreciating here is, that the majority of problems that have interfered with proposals for change seem to have financial implications, or cause major repercussions that may be just as hard to deal with as being “circadian challenged” (, and not “overextending” yourself, if there is such a thing on CC.) The same will be true in the workplace, but instead the trouble becomes staff often wants to get off early, while customers want you to be there late!</p>
<p>"I don’t know a single person who starts work at 9:00 a.m. I start work every day at 7:30, after a half hour commute. Most folks I know start work at 8:00.</p>
<p>John. "</p>
<p>I do, but I am painfully aware that I could make more bucks/be a better business person if I just GOT UP!</p>
<p>“It is really not just a matter of forcing yourself to go to bed for some people.”</p>
<p>The trick appears to be in when you get up, NOT when you go to bed.</p>
<p>My school starts at 7:30 AM and ends at 2:25 PM. We have four 85 minutes blocks each day, with 10 minutes of passing time, and a longer 3rd block to include lunch.</p>
<p>“I don’t know a single person who starts work at 9:00 a.m. I start work every day at 7:30, after a half hour commute. Most folks I know start work at 8:00.”</p>
<p>Wow, that’s a regional and industry thing. I don’t know anyone who goes to work that early, other than hourly workers at the low end of the pay scale. Everyone I know making six figures goes in around 10 AM; they’re all computer engineers or tech people of one kind or another. My sweetie leaves the house around 10:00 AM, works from about 11 to 7-8 PM.</p>
<p>My school starts at 7:20, and ends at 1:40. There’s an optional 9th period that runs from 1:45 to 2:27, and sports are after that. In my freshman year, we started at 7:47 and ended at 2:07, but instead of a 9th period, there was a 0 period that ran from 7:00-7:42. Each period is 42 minutes, with a 5 minute passing time. Lunch isn’t a scheduled activity, and is placed wherever one has a free period (which, unfortunately, can be first or eight period.) Thus, many people eat and sleep during class. I have AP Lit first period, and, needless to say, the class is quite dead. Only a few of us participate (myself included).</p>
<p>Anyways, while I do enjoy getting home at 1:55, waking up at 5:50 in order to catch a 6:40 bus is really annoying. I could always do without breakfast and wake up at 6:20ish, but I like having a warm bagel in the morning, especially when the temperature is near 0 plus windchill. =)</p>
<p>I go to a small private school in MD. We start at 8:00 AM (almost thirty minutes later than public schools) and end at 2:45PM (half an hour later). I am fine with the start and end time because we I have 7 classes a day which I like a lot better than the block schedule. A lot of my friends live at least a half hour away from my school and they usually get dropped off on the their parents way to work at like 7:40ish. I don’t think a lot of people mind the start and ending time. </p>
<p>My school does have issues with sports practices being at like 7PM at night. For some odd reason, Boys JV Basketball practice is from 7-9pm every night and I don’t understand that. Most of them are freshmen and sophomores who probably don’t get home until 9:30 anyway. Most other sports have practices from either 3-5 or 5-7 which is ample time to do homework. Clubs don’t last that long and usually run from 3-4.</p>
<p>My high school runs from 8:20 to 3:20. I am not aware of any problems with extra curriculars or school clubs. It’s nice not having to be at school and doing work so early in the morning. The elementary schools are earlier at 7:45 to 2:20.</p>
Only a few of us participate (myself included).</p>