<p>Our 11th grade son got 232 on PSAT, comparable SATs. A nice kid, well liked, but is disorganized and doesn't seem focused on grades at all. He has a B average, which is sinking lower, with his heavier junior workload.</p>
<p>Are there colleges that would see the potential in a kid like this? Or will he only be facing the "underachiever" question wherever he goes? (His college guidance counselor said he'd better come up with a good answer.)</p>
<p>Thanks for any advice. We live in the Midwest but he/we are looking for the right place, not so concerned about geography.</p>
<p>Junebug, My concern as a parent would be not so much where he can get into, but rather is he ready to go? Better yet, are you ready as a parent to foot the bill for someone who may not be ready to focus himself and do his best? As for me, I would want to see more commitment out of my son before I put my money on the line. If he turns around in the next year, it will be easier to "come up with the good answer" as your guidance counselor says. He will, at least, be able to say that he was (in the PAST) unfocused but he's turned over a new leaf, blah, blah, blah. And his high grades should point this out. However, if he doesn't come around, you might consider a year off or CC classes in the meantime until he has some direction.</p>
<p>My son has a very good friend who is brilliant, but like your's, unfocused a little in hs and didn't have grades to match his potential. He worked for several years in the computer industry after graduation- did VERY well I might add- and now is finally considering going back to school. I think he was smart. If he had gone straight to college, he would have wasted the education.</p>
<p>Definitely. The key thing about the college search is that the student's comfortable in his selection; ultimately, most competitive schools -- and judging by your post, I'm assuming that's what you're thinking, whether he's thinking it or not -- are going to want to see some track record of success. And DP's right: community colleges get a bad rap sometimes, but it's better to save a few bucks and bang out a year close to home and get your head straight than waste a year -- and worst case, fail out -- spending money you'll never see again. It can be hard to sell the "new leaf" argument, because we hear it a LOT. I wish you and your son the best in his search.</p>
<p>Chris D'Orso
Assistant Director of Admissions
Stony Brook University</p>
<p>I have a somewhat different take on this. A kid with high IQ may be more likely to have a lower EQ. It could be even more important to place him in a good environment under positive peer influence. I am not too sure as to what percent of kid’s altitude is fixed prior to entering the college as compare to the percent remains to be developed. I think for most of them, environment is an important factor in developing a positive altitude. I’ll place him in a supporting and challenging college.</p>
<p>I have a different take: I went to community college and it almost made me quit school for good. It was nothing like what I dreamed college would be like, nothing like my friends were experiencing, and I felt left behind.</p>
<p>I transferred quickly to a small LAC yet never lost that sense of being behind my peer group. It led to dropping out after soph year (among other variables).</p>
<p>Bs are not bad grades. Not where he should be, but many good schools would love to take him.</p>
<p>As long as it is what he wants, I would let him TRY college (living away, so that you're not tempted to nag/remind). Then he owns whatever success or failure he has.</p>
<p>I would try to send him to a college where he is not stretched to the limits of his potential, and I would not set high expectations for grades--as long as he was getting his credits toward graduation, I would let him grow up. If he wants, he can always transfer or go to grad school somewhere that matches that 232 PSAT if the spirit moves him later.</p>
<p>If it doesn't work out, you never have to hear from him "you didn't trust/have faith in/want to spend the money on me. This, of course, is provided you have college money set aside for him.</p>
<p>I'm going with a combo plan. How about a gap year and applying to a supportive but demanding college? They are out there, especially if he doesn't sink below B's. Some schools will allow him to defer admission a year. Some openly state they prefer it. Some won't. </p>
<p>He's probably got the mental horsepower to do well but he still needs to be able to steer the truck himself. </p>
<p>This way he can try and if no reasonable alternatives come up, he's still got the ability to apply in his gap year.</p>
<p>But you'll be amazed at the growth most of these kids make between now and acceptance time.</p>
<p>Why he is getting Bs? Is it because he is disorganized? In this case, some attention should be given to issues such as ADD. Is it because the classes are boring and he blows off the work? Then he should be encouraged to challenge himself. He cannot, at this stage, change his curriculum, but you could encourage him to go beyond the assignments. For example, if an assignment was to write a 5 page paper on a certain topic, he could take the opportunity, with the teacher's consent, to write a longer paper based on more reading and research (teachers have to agree; not all want to read longer papers all the time!) He could be encouraged to do some academic ECs that would be enriching.<br>
Can you find out from him why there is such a discrepancy between his obvious abilities and his achievements? How he proposes to reduce this discrepancy?<br>
Now is not too early to think about college. Has he visited any? Has this sparked his interest? Could it be used to motivate him?</p>
<p>Well, that last post of mine was clear as mud. LOL. What I was saying was do both. Prepare for a gap year and college admissions for next year. Not "either or". When the acceptances come in , take stock. It may be the well thought-out gap year rings truest, or maybe y'all find a school that meets all of his requirements. Then your family has choices.</p>
<p>Friends whose S is in a similar position will do a semester-abroad program in his SENIOR year. This will give him time to grow up a bit, a good reason to delay applying to college (he'll repeat the hs semester he missed) and an opportunity to improve his gpa. Maybe this is something for your family to consider?</p>
<p>You may like to look into New College of Florida, the #1 public LAC according to US News and World Report. It is the Honor College of Florida's State System. Even for out of state people the tuition is around $500/credit. Each student develops its individual curriculum under faculty guidance.</p>
<p>New College of Florida, The public liberal arts honors college for ...
New College of Florida offers a liberal arts, research based education where students and faculty mentors design personalized programs of classes, ...
<a href="http://www.ncf.edu/%5B/url%5D">www.ncf.edu/</a> - 22k - Cached - Similar pages</p>
<p>Another good possibility is FAU's Honor College at its Jupiter Campus. Its student body (residential honor college itself) is around 300. The campus is beautiful and adjecent to Scripp Research Institute of Florida.</p>
<p>FAU - Jupiter -
Florida Atlantic University - John D MacArthur Campus, Jupiter ... The MacArthur Campus is not your ordinary campus. FAU at Jupiter is out of this world! ...
<a href="http://www.fau.edu/jupiter/%5B/url%5D">www.fau.edu/jupiter/</a> - 19k - Cached - Similar pages</p>
<p>I'm a smart slacker too. Although not as smart and not as much a slacker as your son :-P. Still, I would apply to engineering schools, they tend to look at scores more than grades.</p>
<p>Besides you can get into many great schools with B's. Even top 50's.</p>
<p>I had a similar dilema w/ D1. Great SAT scores, low 80s gpa (no honors, only 2 APs), DivI caliber athlete and a fantastic interviewer - - anything other than college would have stigmatized her and broken her heart. If this is the case w/ your S, then he should definitely apply to college, but as DP advised, don't focus on where he can get in, but schs that provide the best environ for him. </p>
<p>This was a real challenge since, despite weak grades D considers herself a scholar. Worse still, she's precisely the student on which every adcom is willing to take a chance. And b/c of her test scores, our mailbox was FILLED w/ solicitations from top schools (Amherst, MIT, Williams, etc.). She applied ED to a supportive "top" LAC - though NOT of the Amherst/Williams/Wes caliber - and was accepted. </p>
<p>So far, a happy ending - - but it's 4 years to graduation and getting out may prove more diff than getting in.</p>
<p>
[quote]
232 on PSAT, comparable SATs. A nice kid, well liked, but is disorganized and doesn't seem focused on grades at all. He has a B average, which is sinking lower
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's certainly possible that the low grades are because school is too boring and not challenging enough. But the organization still needs to be developed NOW. What I'm doing for my son (NOT a grade-grubber, but a curious kid who likes challenges) is lining up some quite tough distance learning courses for him. Then I remind him that he has to learn organization and time management to get through life anyhow, and there is no time like the present to do that. Maybe (as Marite suggested) you're not in a position to restructure a junior's curriculum very much. But do make sure a kid with that kind of test scores is taking the most challenging curriculum his school offers. Guide him in time management. The U.S. News article posted in this thread describes what kind of college looks for that kind of student.</p>
<p>Before you start planning for a gap year in Boot Camp, let me ask: What do you mean by a B average? By the local standards of CC, admitting to a B average is something like walking around with your fly open. But there are B averages and B averages; they're not all equal.</p>
<p>I don't remember my daughter's precise GPA at the time she applied to college, but if it was higher than 3.5 unweighted it was only by a basis point or two, and it probably wouldn't have been that high if she had been permitted to take a whole bunch of AP classes her junior year. Basically, she did very well in courses she cared about (English, History), usually wound up with some sort of B grade in sciences and math, and had declining grades in languages because she developed an allergy to grammar and vocabulary. She was a National Merit Scholar with PSATs a notch lower than your son's, and her SATs were equivalent to his. </p>
<p>There's no question that she underperformed her standardized testing in school, and I don't doubt that she suffered for it in the admissions process. She was rejected by the two most selective schools to which she applied, which were her top two choices, but she wound up choosing among great options, and is pretty happily ensconced -- with a B average -- at a great, challenging university.</p>
<p>If you really feel that your son has a problem, I'm not trying to denigrate that. I certainly felt frustrated with my daughter sometimes -- she could have done a lot better with just a little more effort; she was something of a slacker, at least in school (not out of it). But I never thought there was anything fundamentally wrong with her that wouldn't be cured when she didn't have to take any more math classes and she could read real literature, not memorize the French lexicon for ski trips or airports. If your son doesn't do well in courses he likes, or doesn't have courses he likes, then it's probably a different story altogether. He certainly won't be as strong a candidate as he would be if his grades were equivalent to his SATs. But a B average per se is not necessarily the kiss of death in the admissions process at really wonderful colleges.</p>
<p>Hot off the press (I checked on line) His grades now seem to be two Bs and a C+ in his AP classes, C in language, and B- in History. So I guess I was being optimistic in thinking he could hold a B average.</p>
<p>I talked with him last night about doing a college course this summer "in anything you think sounds interesting." He got on line and started looking for classes. </p>
<p>thanks for the link to the article about colleges. And I truly appreciate all of your help/advice. I'll print it out and talk it over with my husband. All the best.</p>
<p>Another thing that comes into play with organizational skills, study skills, academic focus, or whatever you want to call it- is chronological age. I don't know how old your son is, but I've seen kids graduate high school at 19-and-a-half, and others barely 17. There's a big difference between a late bloomer junior taking 3 AP classes and a kid who has an August birthday and started school a year late. Sometimes I think the age differential plays a large role in academic success, even as late as high school. Our school puts out a birthday guide for all it's students and with only one exception over the past three years, all the vals and sals have been very close to 19, if not 19, upon graduation (except one girl). The extra bonus in maturity comes into play not only upon starting 9th grade, but also when they get into their first really tough AP classes as a junior.</p>