<p>My youngest S recently took a math placement test for the honors math classes in his HS. The test used sections of the cogAT (Cognitive Abilities Test), his quantitative score was 80% but his nonverbal score was 99%. S was evaluated in elementary school for a LD and this is consistent with those scores.</p>
<p>What I am trying to figure out is what do these scores really mean in terms of his overall ability and intelligence and what can we do to help him achieve his potential? He struggles in classes that are based on book learning with a lot of memorization. This year that included history, science and spanish. He gets very frustrated when he sees classmates who seem less intelligent, study less and do better. Are there study strategies that might help? Are there fields that his strengths suit him for? He wants to be a chef and seems to have an aptitude for it. Any insight would be appreciated.</p>
<p>Can't help, but I am interested in the answers too, as I have a son who also scored in the 99% for non-verbal intelligence. It seems your son is on to something with his interest in being a chef. My son is very good at visualizing things. He has been able to improve his reading comprehension and is fairly balanced now, but non-verbal is still his strength. He is interested in acting, comedy, etc.</p>
<p>I would not attach too much significance to these scores.</p>
<p>The COGAT is essentially an optional part of the Iowa Test of Basic Skills (ITBS), and one of many group intelligence tests that have been around a long time. It is not a bad test within its limitations, but not really designed for what you are asking. It ceilings rather quickly and subscores are based on a rather limited number of test items.</p>
<p>Probably the best use of such scores is to prompt you to ask further questions, and then figure out if further testing is warranted.</p>
<p>Have you had a discussion with guidance at your child's school? That would be a good place to start. They should have interpretation tools that are not available to us lay folks.</p>
<p>I would tend to agree with newmassdad. This is not exactly analogous but in lower grades, my son used to score consistently lower in verbal areas than in Math/science. These were in the ITBS tests. My son is very verbal and is a humanities student now at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Hmmm. Can't really add anything either but traits and abilities sound similar to my younger daughter. I do not think she has had any of these non-verbal tests but I do see that d # 2 seems more analytical-perceptive etc. than the "smart" d who is at Cornell. Though her classroom grades are good, she struggles with the SAT test (especially CR) She is finding the ACT test a bit better and not as "mind-numbing" (her description of the SAT test) as the SAT. So maybe there is a correlation to the type of student one is and how successful they may be with the SAT vs. the ACT. Her college major may also be one that is more physically active than most. She is looking into Recreation and Tourism as a possible course of study. She will be taking forensics in her senior year. I actually "pushed" that as a science elective for her because she was always so analytical and able to piece things together that I truly think she has "natural" investigative skills. So I'm just curious if others have anything to add on the topic of non-verbal intelligence.</p>
<p>My D doesnt have an LD, but she would get sooo bored just reading the Social Studies, she would fall asleep. So we tried a few different methods. We bought her an inexpensive tape recorder, and she would read the lesson aloud into it. Saying the words seemed to help. We also had her teach the lesson to us. As well, writing or typing, there are some great notebook type programs, the lessons. It was using the tangible along with the verbal that helped her. SOme kids are just readers. My D is more of a talker, and more auditory. Likes to listen and talk about subject. Math was a breeze. I have purchased a couple of inexpensive programs to help her with her literature and history notes. THey help with organizing. And 3x5 cards. Its that writing it down and looking at it. As well, it really helps for studying. Some kids who are not as confident with verbal stuff may procratinate because it seems overwhelming. But if notes are done every single night, it gets easier and easier.</p>
<p>As well, with an LD, does son get extended test time? Thats something to look into.</p>
<p>Group tests are not as statistically accurate as those administered individually, but they are useful guides. Traditionally, "non-verbal" -- aka spatial -- intelligence is often seen as more indicative of true intelligence because it cannot be taught. I think the span from 80th percentile to 99th percentile (NOT percent, by the way) is certainly one to watch, especially when you are seeing correlating problems in school.</p>
<p>In my D's case, there was a large gap between her scores (don't remember which test -- may have also been COGat) with math lowest, then verbal, and a high non-verbal, which triggered the school to test her individually. (I worked for Mental Health, and when I saw the scores I went in to request further examination, and found out the school had already earmarked her scores.) What they found was not a problem in any specific academic area, but rather, an auditory problem in processing the verbal directions for the test. She scored lowest on the test they gave the first day, and got better each day after that, as she learned "how" to test. The psychologist said she would probably have gotten varying results based on the order of testing.</p>
<p>All that being said, they did not change anything at school, because she was at or above grade level in everything, and the "rules" are that they have to be at least 2 grades behind before doing anything. But it did help us know how to help the teachers. She is bright, so she has learned to compensate.</p>
<p>Both 80th%ile and 99%ile are well above the mean. If your child is achieving at or above grade level with those scores then a learning disability is usually not an issue in a public school. If you want to use this info to describe a particular learning syle that would be more realistic. As stated the Cogats are group IQ tests and their accurate reliability should be questioned. You usually have to compare an individual IQ with where the child is coming out on an achivement test to begin to consider the posssibility of a learning disability. Usually a number that is about 1 1/2 to 2 standard deviations below the norm is a red flag. This correlates to about anything below the 16th%ile (some schools use the 25th%ile). This is just a brief description. Of course inter test scatter etc. should be looked at as well as other subtest scores to accurately determine what is going on with an individual student.</p>