<p>I would like to go to a top tier law school such as Harvard or Yale. I understand that the most important factors in getting into these institutions are the LSAT and undergraduate GPA, but I was wondering if where you go for your undergraduate degree plays any role in admissions. Specifically, all other things being equal, how much better would my chances of getting into HLS be with a Macalester degree compared to a degree from the University of Montana? From other threads I have gleaned that where you go as an undergrad is of relatively minor significance, but I feel like that might change when comparing two schools of completely different calibers, such as Mac vs. the lowly University of Montana. Any suggestions? Is it worth paying $35,000 more per year to go to Macalester over the University of Montana for someone trying to go to a top 3 law school, or will it really not make that big a difference towards my chances of acceptance?</p>
<p>Save the money (140k will almost pay for 3 years of law school tuition). You will need this you will need for law school because even Harvard will first give you 40k in loans per year. Kick but at Montana and then kill the LSAT.</p>
<p>I appreciate the advice, but I still would like to know if Harvard/Yale admissions would look at a Macalester degree with more favor than a Montana one. There were ZERO University of Montana graduates enrolled in the JD program at HLS for the 2010-2011 school year . . .</p>
<p>In law school admissions LSAT/GPA are king the school does not make any difference.
How many Macalaster grads were there during the same period? When you visit go to career services and look at the law school grids. You won’t find a number of students that will make up for the 140k price difference.</p>
<p>It seems hard to grasp, but time and time again it is shown that GSA and LSAT are most important, not the school where the GPA came from. </p>
<p>What people sometimes claim, is looking at the list of students accepted to top law schools that they see a large number from undergrads like Harvard. But keep in mind, the student who got into Harvard which required strong HS GPA and Strong SAT’s to match is likely also the same student who will do well on the LSAT. I am not saying that if you did well on the SAT’s you will do well on the LSAT, I am just saying that they type of student who does well at one has a strong chance of being able to do well on the other.</p>
<p>What about graduate school? Are admissions to top notch grad schools as disaffected by place of undergraduate study as admissions to top law schools, or is it a different story?</p>
<p>Admissions, to grad school is based on the program you are applying to, if you are applying to a PhD or Masters program. Grades, GRE, course work, research experience that you have gained. In masters programs, you are looking at the research that is already out there. </p>
<p>A lot of the financial aid in Masters programs comes in the form of loans where many doctoral programs can be fully funded or offer various forms of financial aid, from assistantantships to scholarships to loans. </p>
<p>For the PdD, your thesis and research project are designed to uncover new knowledge in your field and be of publishable quality.</p>
<p>I’ll disagree with the other posters. It varies by law school. If you are not URM, it will matter where you went UG if you apply to Yale. It will matter at Harvard too, but nowhere near as much as it will matter at Yale. I’m NOT saying you can’t get into Yale Law from UMontana. You definitely can. I am saying that you’d have a somewhat better chance coming out of Mac.</p>
<p>But the truth is that only a very small percentage of students will have the gpa and LSAT necessary to get in to either school. if you don’t, it won’t matter one iota where you went to school. Moreover, a huge percentage of students who think they want to go to law school decide otherwise. </p>
<p>My advice is to pick the school where you think you will enjoy the college years most, taking into account the financial considerations. Don’t base your choice on what will look good to law schools.</p>
<p>As for grad school, again, it varies by field and program. However, it’s all about LORs. So if you think grad school is an option for you, go somewhere where you can get to know faculty well enough that you’ll be able to get good LORs. Also, if you know what field you’re interested, look to see what journals and professional organizations faculty are involved with.</p>
<p>Save your money.</p>
<p>I don’t completely agree with either of the above views. Ultra elite UGs (Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, UChicago, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, and maybe a couple of others), can give you a boost, especially on the GPA side of things. However, you definitely can get into HYS from Macalester or Montana as long as you have 3.9+ GPA and 173+ LSAT. However, the difference between Macalester and Montana is no where big enough with regards to law school admissions to affect your outcomes at HYS.</p>
<p>What about the other advantages of a school like Macalester, besides just having the bigger name. Wouldn’t a well known liberal arts college in a huge metropolis provide more opportunities for internships / research / other shindigs that would help me get into Harvard/Yale law school more easily? Also, if letters of recommendation are important for graduate school, wouldn’t the intimate classroom environment of a small liberal arts college be more conducive to a good LOR than something I would get at Montana?</p>
<p>Thanks for all the feedback everyone, this is really helpful to me.</p>
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<p>The bigger question is are your parents comfortable with paying this additional amount of money?</p>
<p>Will they have to take on debt to make this happen?</p>
<p>a few additional things to ponder:</p>
<p>No one is going to loan you this kind of money without a co-signer</p>
<p>The financial aid polices for professional schools is a bit different than it i for undergrad. Even at Harvard, FA starts with you first taking out loans before any need based aid kicks in.</p>
<p>Even though you can borrow the entire cost of attendance through stafford/gradplus loans, your parents income/assets will still be needed to determine your eligibility for need based aid. </p>
<p>You could potentially be looking at over 300k of debt from undergrad and law school? </p>
<p>What is your plan for repaying this? In this economy even being at HYS does not guarantee you a job in big law.</p>
<p>What if OP was a rock star at Montana and was able to get the best LORs and GPA?? Wouldn’t OP be in a better situation having a 3.9/4.0 from Montana than a 3.75/3.85 from Mac?</p>
<p>My sister’s friend from HS went to Mac and she’s a lawyer now, while she didn’t go to HYS, she did get a full tuition scholarship to go to a top 50 Law School and she loves her job as a lawyer.</p>
<p>“Wouldn’t OP be in a better situation having a 3.9/4.0 from Montana than a 3.75/3.85 from Mac?”</p>
<p>3.96 from Montana is better than 3.95 from Macalester. To people making admissions decisions at HYS, neither of the school’s name is better than the other’s. For the academic year 2009-2010, there were 2 students from U of Montana at UChicago Law and 1 student from Macalester at UChicago Law.</p>
<p>Obviously, many people need to consider financial realities above any others. But there are other reasons for choosing colleges. Mac has a highly regarded academic reputation. For many, a great education is worth more than a ticket to graduate school. Of course, that doesn’t mean you couldn’t get a great education at Montana. Look at where graduates of both Mac and Montana went after graduation - that information should be available on each school’s websites. Remember Mac has less than 2,000 students - Montana over 10,000, so you can’t just consider raw numbers. Much of what students learn in college, they learn from their fellow students. So check both schools out and see which one suits you best. Mac meets demonstrated financial need of admitted students, so the difference in price may not be as great as some might think.</p>
<p>Op has already stated,
</p>
<p>Somewhere along the line even if the 35k was his EFC and he was going to Montana for free, Macalaster has already determined that his family has considerable income/assets. Perhaps even after meeting his need there is a 35k a year difference between attending Macalaster and attending UM.</p>
<p>As far as I know Macalester has already given me all the financial aid I am going to get (about $13,000/year worth), and the federal government has given me $5500/year of aid as well. The former is probably the result of my having a college fund of about $180,000, while the later is probably the result of my family’s low income (about $24,000/year). I’m not going to be taking out any loans until at least grad/law school, regardless of college choice.</p>
<p>So does this mean that you are willing to spend your entire college fun on undergrad and possibly take on the whole ball of wax for law school?</p>
<p>Keep in mind even if you should get into Harvard, the generous FA policies that they give as an undergrad is not given in law school. You will minimally be walking away with 120k worth of debt (because they give you a 40k loan first).</p>
<p>I understand there are important financial decisions that I need to make. What I am interested in is the potential for going to a top (HYS) law school coming out of Macalester vs. Montana. I understand it is possible from both. I understand that the difference it will make will be small. What I would like to know is to what extent top law admissions offices consider your extracurricular experiences in college, and your letters of recommendation. If they give these two categories some consideration, I can’t help but feel like Macalester will be giving me the edge in the admissions process via better LORs and more/better extracurriculars.</p>