Holy cow law school tuition

<p>Demos,</p>

<p>Harvard’s program isn’t limited to public service. It covers some private sector jobs. [Eligible</a> Employment<a href=“A%20few%20years%20ago,%20you%20didn’t%20even%20have%20to%20pay%20tuition%20for%20your%20third%20year%20if%20you’d%20committed%20to%20a%20low%20paying%20public%20job%20after%20graduation.%20Unfortunately,%20that%20perk%20has%20ended.”>/url</a> </p>

<p>Yale’s program isn’t limited to public interest jobs either. [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/finaid_COAP.htm]Career”&gt;About COAP - Yale Law School]Career</a> Option Assistance Program (COAP) | Yale Law School](<a href=“http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/lipp/eligible-jobs/index.html]Eligible”>http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/lipp/eligible-jobs/index.html)</p>

<p>There are some circumstances in which the loan whatever you call it by law schools is NOT taxable income. <a href=“http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/finaid_COAPinfo.htm[/url]”>http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/finaid_COAPinfo.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In any event, all I’m trying to say is that it’s not simply a matter of comparing the merit offers of various law schools.</p>

<p>Jonri, I’m not really clear what your point is. I already covered all that. Some programs cover more than public service, which is why I said they “tend to be limited” and not “are always.” Schools like Harvard and Yale have endowments and employment rates that let them pay for more than just public service. Most other schools don’t. Start looking lower in the rankings than #1 and #2 (you don’t go to HYS for their LRAP anyways) and you’ll quickly see trends.</p>

<p>I also know that sometimes the forgiven debt is not treated as taxable income. I even cited the IRS circular explaining how and when that exemption applies. It covers only PSLF forgiveness, and not IBR and PAYE, which Bluebayou kindly brought up. That may change in the future (apparently because of how federal budgeting works student loans aren’t considered tax expenditures. I don’t really know why that is, but it should make it more likely the tax bomb gets dealt with), but it hasn’t yet. </p>

<p>I also know that it’s not simply a question of comparing merit offers. You should compare employment rates against graduating debt. I even gave an example earlier that I’ll quote for you: “If GULC offers her a free ride and Columbia offers sticker, GULC may well be the right call. That’s not like Columbia and, say, Emory, where no amount of cash should change the decision.”</p>

<p>Demos,</p>

<p>First, I said that law schools had loan forgiveness programs. You responded: </p>

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</p>

<p>I then acknowledged that I might have used the wrong term, but law schools DO have their own programs, which vary a lot.To me, the language you used implied that all such law school programs require you to work in public interest jobs. The schools run these programs “for those students working in public interest.” You only modified your language to say that some programs are broader than public interest AFTER I pointed that out.</p>

<p>Now, maybe you don’t plan to take a job working for a private law firm in Jackson, Mississippi, but somebody who did just that took advantage of the program at H or Y–I can’t remember which.There are plenty of places in the US where the startng salaries for attorneys in private firms makes them eligible for loan repayment programs. There are also some working parents, usually working mommies, who work part-time as attorneys and make less than the cut off and under some of these programs they are eligible too, at least for a certain amount of time. There are people who accept jobs teaching in law school who qualify. And some people DO start their own firms a few years out of law school and if it takes them a few years to get established, they may be eligible too. </p>

<p>Next you say…</p>

<p><a href=“you%20don’t%20go%20to%20HYS%20for%20their%20LRAP%20anyways”>quote</a>

[/quote]
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<p>I know people who do go to H or Y for those programs. Indeed, I know people who didn’t even apply to S because what they wanted to do wouldn’t make them eligible for S’s program but did make them eligible for H or Y’s. I don’t know if it’s still the case, but for a while there, H’s program treated married people better than Y’s program did (if the spouse earned substantial income), and I know people who chose H over Y for that reason. </p>

<p>Some people make choices between Root-Tilden (or whatever it’s called now) or the Furman at NYU [Furman</a> Academic Program | NYU School of Law](<a href=“http://www.law.nyu.edu/furmanprogram]Furman”>http://www.law.nyu.edu/furmanprogram) and HYS. The fact that beginning academics qualified for H and Y’s programs did impact their decision whether to accept a Furman or go to H or Y. </p>

<p>So, my point is that I think the choices are more nuanced than you suggest…and that for that reason your posts are misleading for people in certain circumstances. YMMV, and obviously does.</p>

<p>That’s fine. This is a message board and no sane person should rely on either of us in deciding which offer to accept.</p>

<p>DS turned down Rubenstein at UC and is at HYS, most specifically because of PI opportunities thru HYS. His entire choice was predicated on taking advantage of HYS LRAP. So yes, some people do indeed choose HYS because of the LRAP. Smart choice or not … buyer beware.</p>

<p>There are many financial implications, both present and future, of loan forgiveness programs. Be sure you’re informed of such.</p>

<p>MathildaMae- your child with a 170 LSAT will have a very bright future in law. I wouldn’t worry about the cost of law school. No matter what, the cost of law school at a lower-ranked top 10 school vs. a higher ranked one will be high, with or without a scholarship, and no matter what, your child will have job options with high-paying law firms.</p>

<p>Go to the best-ranked law school possible and take the highest-paying job possible (a $160k job in NYC or a similar job in DC or a cheaper city, at a similar salary) will most likely be available for your child. Doing that for a few years will pay for the tuition.</p>

<p>When I was applying to law schools, I got a scholarship to Duke. My parents wanted me to turn it down and go to Columbia, and I ended up going to Harvard. People from all of those schools get into high-paying large law firm jobs, but I wouldn’t take any risks by attending a less-well-ranked school than the best your child gets into, given how horrible the legal market is these days.</p>

<p>Have to disagree somewhat regarding clerkships at the major Circuit Courts and the USSC. It’s anecdotal of course but places such as Washington & Lee have done fairly well in sending its alumni to the storied halls of the federal circuits and the Supreme Court, and Wall Street firms for that matter. I know one W&L friend who clerked at the USSC. And going back further, let’s not forget that Mr. Justice Lewis Powell was a W&L Law alumnus. My point? You don’t have to go to Yale or Harvard to get a prestigious clerkship. Getting nominated to a federal circuit judgeship or even the USSC? Now that’s another matter altogether.</p>

<p>Let’s take a look at W&L’s employment stats for the class of 2012(the most recent report) taken right from its website. Of a class of 130 graduates, 93 are listed as employed or seeking an advanced degree(of those employed, 2 are employed by the law school and 6 are listed as seeking advanced degrees) Of those with jobs, only 68 have jobs where a JD is required. So approximately 52% of its graduating class got jobs as attorneys. I can’t imagine that anyone started as a 1L with that goal. It pays to do your research before deciding to attend law school.</p>

<p>It’s true that one needn’t attend HLS or YLS to get a prestigious clerkship, but the odds are better.</p>

<p><a href=“HTTP Error 404 - Page Not Found”>http://law.wlu.edu/admissions/ninemonthdata.asp&lt;/a&gt;
It looks as if 6 of 130 students in the W&L class of 2012 received federal clerkships, or about 5 percent of the class. The percentage was about 10 percent in 2011 (11/129) and 2010 (13/123).</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/careers/ocs/employment-statistics/index.html”>http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/careers/ocs/employment-statistics/index.html&lt;/a&gt;
105 of 528 2012 HLS graduates received federal clerkships, or nearly 20 percent.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.law.yale.edu/studentlife/cdoprospectivestudents2012employstats.htm”>http://www.law.yale.edu/studentlife/cdoprospectivestudents2012employstats.htm&lt;/a&gt;
77 of 222 2012 YLS graduates received federal clerkships, or almost 35 percent (wow).</p>

<p>This is a fun list: <a href=“Lists of law clerks of the Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia”>Lists of law clerks of the Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia;
It looks as if there were 4 W&L law grads who did SCOTUS clerkships between 1975 and 1993 (two for Justice Powell and 2 for Justice Rehnquist). None since, if the list is accurate. </p>

<p>W&L is certainly a fine school, although given the terrible job market, the dire employment statistics are unsurprising (those are due to the abysmal job market, not the quality of W&L).</p>

<p>I went to HLS, and everyone who wanted a federal clerkship got one when I was coming through. I think that Yale must have students who are more focused on non-large law firm career paths; I rarely come across Yale grads in private practice.</p>

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<p>While that is certainly true, the odds of getting any federal clerkship are certainly much higher at HYS+Chicago, and the rest of the T14.</p>

<p>Moreover, the odds of getting a BL job are also much better than from W&L, which had less grads go into Big Law than into clerkships. And since it takes Big Law to pay off massive debt, with out LRAP going to a lower ranked school only makes sense if it is close to free, IMO.</p>

<p>Mean salary of a W&L grad = $75k. ($91k in the private sector.)</p>