<p>D took the LSAT in December and scored 170. This puts her at the median of the schools she was hoping to attend. So that's the good news. But if I am understanding the way that merit scholarships work, she is unlikely to get any unless her LSAT is closer to the top of the admitted range. Can anyone shed any additional light on how law schools award merit scholarships?</p>
<p>I am also wondering are any other parents concerned about the prospect of their kid akin on hundreds of thousands of dollars in law school debt? How have you and your kids balanced the rank/prestige of a law school with the cost?</p>
<p>If her GPA is around median as well, then expect to pay sticker or receive a very small scholarship (like 10k/year). High COA is the reality at nearly all law schools.</p>
<p>Have you (or has she) mined the numbers available on the lawschoolnumbers site? They’re self-reported but over time you can get a feel for which applicants are reporting their true stats. You can find an applicant whose stats (GPA is also important) are similar to your d’s, and see how they’re faring this year, or what previous year results were like.</p>
<p>If you go to an individual school’s profile, select the year, and click on “applicants,” you’ll see those applicants who are reporting on lawschoolnumbers, their stats, and their results, including any scholarship awarded. It doesn’t look as if many scholarships are out there yet this year. Since fewer people are applying to law school (a wise decision in most cases), your daughter may well receive scholarships from some T14 schools if her GPA is also strong.</p>
<p>It’s smart to balance cost and prestige in a bad market for new lawyers. The prevailing wisdom I’ve picked up here and on other sites is that you shouldn’t pay full sticker for schools outside of the top three, and certainly not for schools out of the top 14, though many do. There are a lot of numbers to look at - hiring results at specific schools, minimum 1L GPA required for scholarship renewals, LRAP (loan repayment assistance programs) requirements, how much a $150K-plus loan comes to per month and over how long, etc.</p>
<p>Two numbers are important, and two numbers only: LSAT and GPA. If her GPA is in the top quartile and her LSAT is in the middle, she still may have a shot at some merit money.</p>
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<p>As a parent I agree with frazzled. I would counsel no one to pay sticker outside of the top 5, or perhaps 6 (NYU) and if one really wants to live in NYC.</p>
<p>Otherwise, one has to balance “prestige” with money and perhaps with location.</p>
<p>There are also loan forgiveness programs. The top law schools have them. Upfront, you borrow the $, but if your income is below a certain level, you only pay part of it back. It’s important to keep this is mind for kids interested in public interest because it can be more important than the apparent cost.</p>
<p>There are all sorts of caveats–for example, some school’s programs take spousal income into account in determining whether you have to repay. Still, some of my attorney kid’s friends went to very expensive law schools and then took public interest jobs, thus relieving them of the obligation to repay most of their loans.</p>
<p>BTW, Nobody I know draws a distinction between top 5 and top 6. NYU is seen as the equal of Columiba and UChicago, with more of an emphasis on public interest. Columbia is seen as very business oriented–nothing wrong with that, but not what everyone wants.</p>
<p>Loan forgiveness is a government program, not a school program. The government runs three main programs: Income Based Repayment, Pay As You Earn, and Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Schools often run Loan Repayment Assistance Programs in addition for those students working in public interest (these combine with PSLF). </p>
<p>As for balancing prestige, you shouldn’t. Prestige is worthless. Spend some time on [url=<a href=“http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/]LST[/url”>http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/]LST[/url</a>] looking at job prospects. Those are what really matter. Depending on your financial situation, it may well be worth going to a lower T14 for less than for going to a higher T14 for more. The intra-T14 job placement isn’t so disparate that you should rule this out. I’d have to know her GPA and career ambitions to be more specific.</p>
<p>whether prestige matters, depends on your goals. As Jonri notes, if one is after PI, NYU might be numero uno. But if one is after Article III clerkships, or SCOTUS clerkships, prestige matters big time (in order):</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree. Take GULC and Cornell, for example, which after assuming $300k in debt, a grad has a 12% and 13% chance, respectfully, of having a bad outcome. (In other words, no job, and ineligible for the LRAP.)</p>
<p>In contrast, Columbia and Chicago have 2% and 3% chance of a bad outcome. Looked at another way, the GULC/Cornell have a 4-6 times higher chance of a bad outcome than C&C (“intra-T14”). To me, those are disparate numbers worthy of consideration. Now of course, if GULC or Cornell toss some serious merit money into the pot…win-win.</p>
<p>I don’t think we’re actually disagreeing. My point is that the job placement between the upper and lower T14 isn’t so great that money shouldn’t sway the decision. That seems in accordance with your last sentence. If GULC offers her a free ride and Columbia offers sticker, GULC may well be the right call. That’s not like Columbia and, say, Emory, where no amount of cash should change the decision.</p>
<p>I recommend that everyone considering law school should read “Don’t Go to Law School (Unless)”, by Paul Campos, a professor of law at the University of Colorado.</p>
<p>Law school is not the value proposition that it used to be. Anyone considering going deeply into non-dischargeable debt should investigate the facts carefully before making a decision that is likely to have such profound implications on the trajectory of their future finances.</p>
<p>Law school is expensive, but so is any other academic program in this country, currently. I just saw the sticker price for the undergraduate tuition at my alma mater, and it is jaw dropping. Their tuition for undergrads increased by 20% since I graduated, and I didn’t graduate too long ago. (however, it should be stated that many undergrads receive financial aid)</p>
<p>Having (almost) gone through law school, if one is debating between lower T14 with substantial scholarship, and a top 6 school with sticker, I’d lean towards formal. Just attend Cornell / Duke / GULC at substantial scholly and bust your butt in school. </p>
<p>You’d be surprised at the rather high % of law school students who don’t necessarily put in the sufficient level of effort into their studies, despite the scary job market. I’ve encountered a fair share of law students who are too busy dealing with high school level melo-drama in their romantic relationships, going bar-hopping 4-5 times a week, playing Xbox until the dawn, or playing in one of those pointless student ‘extracurricular’ activities. Many of these guys ended up with poor grades, and they are jobless at the moment.</p>
<p>What I am saying is that as long as you attend a pretty-good school (at least top 15 and up) and bust your butt in school, you have a good chance of making it.</p>
<p>“What I am saying is that as long as you attend a pretty-good school (at least top 15 and up) and bust your butt in school, you have a good chance of making it.”</p>
<p>This is true, as long as you understand by “making it” he means “becoming a BigLaw associate”.</p>
<p>The associate scrapheap still awaits for many such associates, meaning “those without a $2,000,000 book of business.”</p>
<p>“D took the LSAT in December and scored 170. This puts her at the median of the schools she was hoping to attend. So that’s the good news. But if I am understanding the way that merit scholarships work, she is unlikely to get any unless her LSAT is closer to the top of the admitted range. Can anyone shed any additional light on how law schools award merit scholarships?”</p>
<p>It depends on whether they want to buy the LSAT score or not based on what they have at the moment.</p>
<p>Based on my personal experience, Duke should be willing to pay a year’s worth of tuition for that LSAT.</p>
<p>Also, if you get offered money, make sure you ask for more money.</p>
<p>If they’re willing to give you something, they’re willing to give you more.</p>
<p>“I am also wondering are any other parents concerned about the prospect of their kid akin on hundreds of thousands of dollars in law school debt? How have you and your kids balanced the rank/prestige of a law school with the cost?”</p>
<p>Going to law school at this point makes very little economic sense.</p>
<p>If you do go to law school, I recommend living as frugaly as possible and paying it off as soon as possible. This means living like a student for the first six years you are an attorney.</p>
<p>IMO, when it comes to loan forgiveness, there are major differences among law schools and these should be taken into account when choosing among law schools.</p>
<p>Yes, those are generally referred to as LRAPs, or Loan Repayment Assistance Programs. They tend to be limited to those in public service of some kind, which is why I mentioned their combining with PSLF. One thing I neglected to mention were school fellowships, which are generally school-funded public employment, where a graduate works for a low wage funded by the school at a public or non-profit entity. LRAPs assist you with loans, they don’t forgive them. Only the government can do that.</p>
<p>If you are in the top 25 percentile, most schools offer lots of merit. Son got money offers from everywhere accepted (and didn’t get off any waitlists he was on, hence no merit awards there).</p>
<p>When all the offers come in, weigh out the costs vs school. Going just by USNWR ranking is foolish in my opinion.</p>
<p>If you check out the Law School By the Numbers website you can get an idea of all the merit money awarded and the stats of those students getting it. </p>
<p>Also, cost of living really varies from area to area.</p>
<p>Good luck. Sounds like your daughter is a great candidate.</p>