<p>Does the school offer early release? Your D likely needs just a few classes for her diploma; having the other courses on her HS transcript isn't necessary. So she signs up for the classes she needs/wants to take at high school, and gets early release; she can take whatever else she wants elsewhere whether the school is willing to put it on her HS transcript or not. She can send the transcripts for the other courses, wherever she takes them, separately from her HS transcript, and still get a diploma because she'd have fulfilled the requirements for the diploma.</p>
<p>Does Mass. allow students to partially-homeschool? Our state does, and that would make what you want easy. (Our state also requires schools to reimburse families for certain college-level courses - science, math and foreign language - if the high school doesn't offer a corresponding class and if the student has completed the prerequisite coursework.)</p>
<p>And, while our district has a limit on the number of on-line or correspondence courses that can be applied to the high school diploma, that isn't a limitation on how many you can take and report to colleges. If you take more than the district allows, it may not show up on your high school transcript, but it is easy enough to get the college transcript to send on to colleges. My D is graduating with way more units than required -- if some of them weren't on the transcript it wouldn't affect anything.</p>
<p>Just want to throw in that private schools might still be an option. Probably not Andover or Milton, but because of the economy many private schools that would typically not have space might this year.</p>
<p>fwiw: In my experience it is always easiest and least time consuming to get a public school to agree to concessions for your child if you can create an option for the school that won’t be setting precedents for possibly many others who may find themselves in similar circumstances. If your local homeschool community has already fought this particular battle, that would seem an excellent way to go imho. If not, try to approach it in a way that doesn’t force the school to make decisions which will necessarily impact lots of students – unless you think your time will be well spent on that crusade. jmho</p>
<p>"With two independent studies, she needs 4 classes in school to be within guidelines. I suppose that if we can solve the AP Stats issue, and she gets MVCalc, she can pick something really easy like art or astronomy as a 4th class just to be legal, and effectively do what she wants by not registering in school for the language class, which is merely an elective, but taking it anyway. "</p>
<p>My son had a similar issue this year, although it was due to a schedule conflict, not funding, and he solved it precisely as you described above. He took MVCalc at the local cc and AP Physics through Stanford's EPGY. Neither of those classes appeared on his hs transcript, although he had the option of adding them (or at least the calc class, not sure about EPGY). He didn't need them for graduation and his gc recommended against putting them his transcript, so when it came time to send the mid-year grade report he sent those transcripts separately. To fulfill his class requirement at the hs he arranged to be a lab tech for the physics teacher (the high school calls it work experience and allows the teacher to give him credit and a grade). It was a win-win; my son had a no-homework period and someone to consult if he had a physics question, and the physics teacher had an assistant who, among other things, helped build the labs for a new curriculum module in practical electricity.</p>
<p>I really can't tell you what effect this had on his college apps. His gc discussed it in her letter, and he also mentioned it in the "other information" section of his apps. So far he has been accepted at one of his private school reaches (fortunately his top choice, early) and rejected at the other two. The public school decisions are just now starting to dribble in, but in CA those are based on soph and jr grades, so senior year doesn't count except to fulfill any remaining requirements.</p>
<p>My older kid also took calc bc her jr year and took mvcalc during the fall of sr year. It worked out great for her. She re-took mvcalc when she got to college, but she took the advanced (more theoretical) section of it, so while the math was familiar, writing formal proofs definitely wasn't. My feeling is that AP Stat is not the way to go for a kid who plans to take more math in college. Their calculus gets rusty, and then they get thrown in the next year with a bunch of students whose calc is still fresh in their minds. That is more or less what happened to me in college, and it wasn't pretty.</p>
<p>We used to homeschool in MA, and I was looking forward to having the kids takes HES classes when they were old enough, but we ended up moving out of state. I think it's a disgrace that your daughter's school is not supportive of her taking advantage of such a wonderful local resource. I would recommend doing whatever is required to enable her to take the classes she wants -- I've heard the HES courses have been great experiences for MA homeschoolers. IF you decided to do AP chem IS, you don't necessarily need to use a formal online course - we are using Thinkwell Chemistry (thinkwell.com) and a lab kit through LabPaq (labpaq.com). Along with an AP guide, I think it would be great preparation. You can even get an at-home course certified as an AP course by submitting your lesson plans to the College Board (I've heard of homeschoolers who have done this, though I haven't - yet). Still, if one of the HES courses your daughter is considering is chemistry, that would be my preference, so I hope that works out.</p>
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How does one do this? How does one find out what the school's legal obligations are in this scenario?
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<p>Find your state homeschooling organization and find boards like this one for homeschoolers in your state. Homeschooling laws vary widely state to state, so you need state specific information. Even within the state, often the specifics are left up to the district. </p>
<p>In some states, students can take classes but not do ECs, in other states it the opposite. I would recommend finding this out from homeschooling parents who are currently doing it as these laws change and local districts are often unaware of what the homeschooling laws are. </p>
<p>Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>^^Agreed. And because you may not get correct answers from the “state” if it isn’t in their best interests. If this is possible, homeschool parents can tell you exactly what to do and how to do it.</p>
<p>Please let us know if that is an option. And how it all turns out for you.</p>
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and try to understand what the math director is trying to do to see if we can get a united front. (maybe the math director herself teaches AP Stats - not really sure - but that would explain a lot, LOL!). This director would ultimately need to approve the independent study - something that she has routinely done in the past.
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<p>I think you should be firm with the school and insist on what is best academically for your daughter. The school should be making academic decisions, they do not have a right to arbitrarily deny approvals in a way which is not in the best interests of the student. Especially if such approval was routine in the past.</p>
<p>I PM'ed CRD, but each state and each district probably has requirements as to how much time a student must be in school, limits on study halls, etc... When S was taking evening classes, he still had to be in school the whole day (7 periods) so he ended up having 8 different classes on the days when he took college classes and homework for all of them. In other words, his hs course-load was not reduced. Nor was he allowed not to be in school for part of the day (although attendance was taken early in the morning, so no one would have checked on him later!).
This really is something that the OP needs to check into with the school administration, rather than relying on other people's experience. FWIW, S's school changed schedules after he graduated from a 7 period, rotating schedule to a block schedule, so many of the issues we struggled with are no longer of concern.</p>
<p>If you want information from homeschooling parents, you might try posting over in the Homeschooling section. I'm a homeschooling parent, but not from Massachusetts, so I can't help with the local laws.</p>
<p>My son did 3 classes at the high school and 2 or 3 at the local state college for three out of four years of "high school" -- he was a homeschooler, although he was doing almost nothing at home past the age of 14. In our state part-time enrollment is allowed, but that varies, so like others have said you'll have to find out what's possible in MA.</p>
<p>If it's workable, I see no downside. My son participated in high school sports and brain bowl, even got a letterman's jacket on which to accumulate his various appliques. ;) He did however find the college classes he took far more interesting and his education over those years would have been dramatically lessened by not taking them.</p>
<p>Good luck. I think you have a great plan if your state/district will let you make it happen. I appreciate the do-it-yourself approach to solving problems like this. Homeschooling is great --it's freedom-- and I think you'll find you don't really need a guidance counselor for much. Both my (formerly) homeschooled kids are in college and never got a lick of help from one.</p>
<p>From everything you've posted I think your best bet is to take the minimum number of classes at the high school necessary to keep them happy. If that means taking an astronomy class or an art class, I think that's fine. Then your D can take all the HES courses she wants. Some states/districts allow partial homeschooling, but I don't know if that would be an option for you. While homeschooling is great, I agree that learning the ropes of homeschooling and applying to colleges at the same time, might be more work than you really want.</p>
<p>A lot of great info and some sound advice here. While thanks to this wonderful board, I think that I understand college admissions "theory" pretty well, I recognize that there is only one way to learn the ins and outs of the "execution" part. Hopefully I can learn the homeschooling "theory" PDQ also hoping that I will not need the execution. </p>
<p>Now I at least know the correct lingo to look into "partial homeschooling" or "part-time enrollment". </p>
<p>I'm still hoping to work things out with the school - no doubt that would be best, but I feel like I'm gaining a position of strength by potentially having viable options. Thanks a bunch everyone!</p>
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I think you should be firm with the school and insist on what is best academically for your daughter. The school should be making academic decisions, they do not have a right to arbitrarily deny approvals in a way which is not in the best interests of the student. Especially if such approval was routine in the past.
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<p>This is the direction we are going. </p>
<p>In what way do they "not have a right" to arbitrarily deny approvals in a way which is not in the best interests of the student. Especially if such approval was routine in the past. </p>
<p>AP Stats is new in our school this year. The claim is that AP Stats should be good enough for high school kids, and thus, since there is an available math class, there is no good reason to approve an independent study. It's amazing to me that someone would become the director of math for a whole school district, especially our school district, with this attitude. </p>
<p>Local homeschool board was helpful but did not bear fruit. Districts have no obligations. Where does it say that a school has no right to act against the academic interests of the children. This would be great info!</p>
<p>Can she go to school part of the day and take the minimum number classes needed to ensure graduation from high school? Then she could take on-line college classes at home to supplement and to fill the rest of the time. (Check Indiana University and Brigham Young University, for example.) It sure sounds like she has had enough high school math to graduate from high school. Take multivariate and linear algebra. So what if the high school doesn't approve them as independent study classes? (Am I missing something?)</p>
<p>Looking at posts above this, I guess this is close to what mathmom and rentof2 are saying.</p>
<p>What are your hs' graduation requirements? Is she required to take a 4th year of math even though she has "run out" of math classes? If not, then perhaps the language class could be the second independent study class and she could take mvcalc completely on her own. She would still need to find that no-homework 4th class.</p>
<p>It is frustrating that parents don't think about the rights of homeschoolers until suddenly (as late as senior year) they realize these are not fringe issues and the dismal state of their rights might actually affect themselves.</p>
<p>OP wrote: "Local homeschool board was helpful but did not bear fruit. Districts have no obligations. Where does it say that a school has no right to act against the academic interests of the children. This would be great info!"</p>
<p>The reason that school districts can be so draconian is because of powerful teacher unions, unsympathetic judges, and people in power (like Obama and most the rest of elected officials on down) are all of the same mindset and simply are not challenged enough to budge on the issues. Issues like school vouchers is a hot topic - and is not unrelated to the homeschooler's dilemmas.</p>
<p>To expect a local homeschool board to be able to suddenly help is wishful thinking. Many homeschool families enter homeschooling as a long term commitment to that type of education and scour the books, talk to lawyers and cobble together their rights bit by bit. Some homeschoolers pay yearly dues/fees to be part of legal groups that protect their rights and take these fights to the courts.</p>
<p>What I'm trying to say is that while I support your desire to find a good part-time homeschooling situation for your daughter and believe it should be easier to manage ... that you will simply need to be your own advocate first. Just remember the homeschoolers next time there are local elections all the way up to the presidental election or when you read an article about how the homeschooling parent in a divorce situation gets the shaft. Read up on NEA positions and be a bit more skeptical. </p>
<p>We were lucky - when we decided to homeschool for two different periods of time (my children have been homeschooled, public schools and private schooled depending on what we felt was best) - we had the funds to afford the schooling, pay for legal advice, etc. While we already pay taxes for our children's right to public schooling, because of no voucher situation available, we paid for all their books and supplies for homeschooling out of our own pocket. It was like being forced to pay for their education twice. We had little to no problems legally speaking, but we did go into it as prepared as possible, and had the luck of the draw of being in a semi-homeschooling friendly state.</p>
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Where does it say that a school has no right to act against the academic interests of the children. This would be great info!
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<p>Good luck with that! But don’t hold your breath. One of the reasons I began home schooling in the first place was it took so much less time to teach my kids what they needed and wanted to learn than try to get the school to teach it to them -- and was so very much less frustrating. Trying to get the school to provide appropriate instruction was more than a full time job. Doing it myself was only a couple of directly supervised, hands-on hours a day. If you are just now running up against this frustration you seem to have been very lucky imho.</p>
<p>The reason my thinking immediately went to an abroad program is because, in my experience, the only way to get around a situation such as yours is to create a scenario that forces their hand but doesn't create a precedent. As I was once told, "We can't give your kid a good teacher just because you ask. Then EVERYONE would insist on a good teacher!" fwiw</p>
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Is she required to take a 4th year of math even though she has "run out" of math classes?
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<p>Yes, and even though she took Geometry AT the HS in 8th grade, it doesn't count in the 4 years. Apparently she has NOT "run out of math" since the director views an AP Stats class as a perfectly reasonable and appropriate math class for a high school kid who has completed BC calculus. </p>
<p>D joked that she wants to just register for Geometry again as the 4th math in protest since she doesn't see how they can have it both ways.</p>