<p>I would appreciate hearing from college counselors/consultants or anyone in admissions as well as other posters on this. I honestly think there is better advice available here than from our high school GC.
Our beloved AP Calc teacher is retiring this year, and AP Calc has been assigned to another teacher we know well--junior daughter almost cried when she heard. I won't go into details, but it would not be a good situation for her. She took algebra for hs credit in eighth grade, so she has four years of math. How important is it to have math in the senior year? Daughter's fall 05 SAT math score was about 620, and I think it was that low mostly because of poor geometry skills (same teacher as for calc next year--not to blame the teacher, but she's done very well in all other math classes, managed a good grade even in the geometry class, but didn't come out with skills that stuck). The SAT score might go up some next fall, but I really don't think it will improve very much--will it be a flag to colleges that she's the kind of student that needs more hs math? In our small school AP calc is the only class higher than what she's already had.</p>
<p>Her other classes next year will include APs in German, Spanish, and English Lit. If she doesn't do the Calc she could take AP Bio instead, and will only have three sciences if she doesn't do that. It's a concern to me either way--Option 1: 5 years of math but a likely difficult and very unpleasant year in Calc and only 3 years of science or Option 2: no math in senior year but picking up a 4th science --the other consideration is that the AP bio would be somewhat better than the calc but not significantly so, mostly because the poor kid really doesn't like science (in AP Phys B this year, hates it, and is dipping just below 4.0 GPA as a result). </p>
<p>The other option is no science or math next year and adding AP government with an online course from Northwestern or another program (not available locally). That's her favorite plan and acually seems apropriate for her college major and career goals, but I'm worried about no math or science in senior year (and of course, she needs to have enough background in those areas to manage college requirements successfully). I don't think she is strong enough to do well in a distance learning situation for calc, and I also think the AP government on top of either the calc or bio would be too much with the other APs she'll have. She's had a solid schedule so far with APUSH, English and French Lang in addition to the Phys B, meaningful ECs with one national award and hopes of another, and she is planning to pursue foreign languages and maybe international relations. She'll be applying to a mix of selective and semi-selective LACs and small universities, and financial aid will be an important consideration so it is important for her to be as strong a candidate as possible. </p>
<p>It was probably a mistake to let her get into a situation where she might not have four sciences, but the graduation requirement is three and it seemed important to let her pursue her loves (and not many American kids come out of high school with proficiency in three foreign languages). I look forward to insights, tales of experience, and advice from others.</p>
<p>Unless you daughter is planning to major in Physics, engineering, or some related science, she is fine with 4 years of math. I certainly wouldn't worry about her not taking AP calculaus or even not taking any math. Just use the senior year to take courses that she wants. It should not affect her admission chances to any school. I would take broad based core courses such as Psychology, Sociology,English etc.</p>
<p>I should note that as an alternative argument, if she takes AP math or stat and does well on the exam, she can place out of it for college and perhaps not have to take any college math.</p>
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She'll be applying to a mix of selective and semi-selective LACs and small universities, and financial aid will be an important consideration so it is important for her to be as strong a candidate as possible.
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I think you should call a few of the schools on her list to get their opinions. </p>
<p>I get plenty of these sorts of calls and I'm happy to chat with people about the courses we look for on transcripts.</p>
<p>Listen to Dean J's advice. Also, check with the high school to see if algebra will be on her transcript. Would she be amenable to starting calculus online in the summer, and stretching it out over a longer period of time? Simply asking the schools may be enough.</p>
<p>My DS was waitlisted at BU and many posted messages on those boards that BU won't even consider students who don't take senior year math. BTW, he did take AP stats feeling it was more useful for his criminal justice major than AP calc. Does your school offer AP stats?
Also, many of the colleges around here (CA) don't take any online classes anymore so you might want to check on that before doing it... Dean J's advice of calling schools she is interested in is a very good one.</p>
<p>Don't use her lack of geometry skills as the guideline as to how well she will do in Calculus. Students who excel in algebra often tend to not do as well in geometry because it requires a different set of skills. I would contact each college she is interested in and find out what is the preferred choice for senior year. My son will be taking classes that he needs for his selected college major which is science/premed, so his transcript will be heavy in math and science. If he were not going into science, I'd suggest he focus on something else that would advance his career plans.</p>
<p>I was told at an information session for UT plan II honors program that if they have no other way to distinguish applicants, they throw away the apps with no calculus on the transcript. scary! </p>
<p>I think she should take AP Bio, which is nothing like physics and requires basically no math.</p>
<p>PS. the first time I took the SAT, I got a 620 in math. The second time I got a 730. I took a class, and what I most got out of it was that the SAT math is not impossible! maybe she has test anxiety due to a perception of lack of math ability... i think that was part of my problem.</p>
<p>My D HATES calculus, took it as a Junior, so for senior year she is doing AP STATS- she wants to study politics, journalism, social justice, etc and feel it will be more useful</p>
<p>As she has a year of calc already, it was a good choice for her</p>
<p>She is suffering through another year of waste of HER time spanish...can only be tortured so much</p>
<p>I am wondering why she dislikes the AP Calc teacher. Is it because she is a bad teacher, or has problems teaching the material? If it's that, I think that she could be okay. It's helpful to have a teacher who can teach but with math it's not imperative. It's easy (well maybe not easy) to follow a good book, do the example problems, find a study group and muddle through the course. If there is any probability that she will have to take calc in college I would recommend it. My H claims that he got through half of his college math classes that way.</p>
<p>If the teacher is crazy and punitive, I think that maybe it would require a different track. </p>
<p>I guess that I would think about taking the class. You will have many bad teachers in life and if she can muddle though it with a halfway decent grade, I would. Esp. if it's something that she can parlay into in college, either through knowing some of the material before college (have to learn at least something) or to get AP credit and test out of any math.</p>
<p>My S through circumstances beyond anyone's control, had a less than satisfactory year with AP Calc. He just took it as a lost year, he knows some which has to help next year. He will take the class over next year and hopes that it will be mostly review.</p>
<p>I agree AP Statistics would be a great option if it's available. I have a feeling you would have mentioned it if it were. I'm leary about the AP Bio. Other than AP US History it's probably the course my science/math guy worked the hardest in. There's just a huge amount of material to cover and lots and lots of memorizing. My inclination would be to let her take a humanities/social science type of course - AP is a plus -and just forget those colleges that turn up their noses at one sided kids. Not everyone has to be well-rounded.</p>
<p>What do colleges think of pre-Calc? That seems to be the accepted course to take first, with the student then needing to take a year of college calculus.</p>
<p>Thanks, DeanJ. After reading your advice, it seems obvious, but we're new at this and may not have thought of checking directly with institutions of interest. AP stats class is not available at the high school, nor is there a cc or local U anywhere close. The school situation really is not just an issue of instructional quality, and I know kids have to learn to deal with all kinds, but there are circumstances that make me hesitant on this. We'll contact some of the admissions offices and think about it over the summer. Thanks all!</p>
<p>If the problem is the teacher, can she take AP-Calc online through APEX or EPGY?</p>
<p>I reiterate that S1 was accepted in 2000 at several top LACs without either AP-Calc or AP-science. He did take four years of math and four years of science.</p>
<p>Does your daughter like math? I think that is a more important question than whether the teacher is good.
I wouldn't drop a course because of a bad math teacher. I am sure that your daughter could understand the subject if she likes it. There are plenty of options available - getting a tutor, buying a good math book, etc. I think that every student will get stuck with a bad college teacher eventually, and it is good to be prepared.</p>
<p>Our D had a similar question (although not math) about scheduling for next year, and called several schools on her wish list to see if they had a prefence of course selection. She was initially hesitiant to call, but everyone she spoke to was helpful and it helped clarify what her goals both for the next year and college are.</p>
<p>I second the advice to take AP Stat if possible....especially if she has no intention to apply to engineering or math degree programs. Or, another possibility is AP Calc AB (our school offered AB and BC classes), which moves more slowly. Above all protect the gpa and make sure her course selection is pertinent to her college education and career aspirations.</p>
<p>My d struggled with AP Calc BC, which she took her senior year along with AP Chem and Honors Anatomy and Physiology (and three other APs). By graduation, she ended up with 6 sciences and 5 maths (started with h.s. credits in 8th grade), but I don't think the AP Calc BC trauma was worth it. She is interested in Public Health Policy and Anthropology...she could have taken AP Stats or AP Calc AB and any admissions counselor would have been satisfied with that. And she would have had As in her senior year math, rather than Cs. Her Calc teacher even confessed she regretted not switching my d to AB at the beginning of the school year. Her course schedule and extracurriculars were just too time consuming to also carry Calc BC.</p>
<p>Also, fyi, my d scored about 750 on the Math section of the SAT, similar on the Math L1 and made straight As in PreCal/Trig and all of her previous maths. AP Calc (especially BC) just requires a lot of time and effort. Whether your daughter will have that time available and will be willing to take on the challenge during her senior year when school is supposed to be fun is another consideration.</p>
<p>So AP Calculus is the only Calculus offered? My daughter opted for Honors Calculus in lieu of AP Calculus. I agree that a math should be taken senior year. If Calculus is not offered in any form by any other teacher than I would have her take AP Stat.</p>
<p>No AP stats available (in fact, no math at all is left for her except AP Calc AB--it is a very small school with no "regular" calculus or any honors math). I think my daughter will be one of 5-6 students who will go ahead with it. As she commented after thinking it over, she's two years older than the last time she had this teacher and hopefully better able to cope with some unpleasantness if it resurfaces, and the class won't be full of squirrely freshmen who can tend to provoke a somewhat uneven-tempered adult to fits of rage and biting sarcasm. I do believe having math in the senior year is important, and I think she sees the wisdom of it too. I'll still have her check with some of the colleges as well. Thanks again to all.</p>