<p>I was wondering if any one is familiar with Michigan's honors program in math, particularly the 295/296/395/396 introductory sequence. Any info about difficulty, quality, class size, grading, grad school placement, etc. would be great. Also, do you think it would be possible to double major in honors math and honors physics?
Thanks</p>
<p>also interested in honors math. thanks.</p>
<p>Anyone? This program may be the thing that makes me chose Michigan or elsewhere. I'm sure someone must know something about it...</p>
<p>its good stuff? lol i bet its hard...im takin physics so id like to know 2</p>
<p>Grad School Placement: U of M itself is one of the elite 10 math grad schools.
It is sure to help its undergrads get into schools. Generally, all Honors Math undergrads get accepted into good graduate schools, with more than a half going to HYPNYMS.
Class size: The Honors classes have 20 people each on average, the regular course has up to 200
Quality/Difficulty: Read below
Grading: Some on tough curves, others on easier curves. Depends on the professor teaching the Honors course.
Honors Physics/ Honors Math Info: Only one person this year,and he's a genius- got a Marshall Scholarship. Very rare for people to do this (double major), simply because getting a degree in Honors Math requires you to take 5 or so grad courses, Honors Physics the same. I suppose you could do it if you had enough credits beforehand.
Honors Math Info:
I think that U of M's reputation is widely underrated. According to my brother, a mechanical engineering and regular math major, the Honors Sequence is as tough as any college. It made him quit the honors math sequence after MTH 396, and switch into meche and regular math. He came 17th in the MMPC one year, too! Only 20 to 30 people may enter every year.They do intense research over the summer ($3,000 stipend), and through UROP(Undergraduate Research Opportunity Program) during the school year. Here are the descriptions of the honors courses. Generally, most take the courses from the beginning,because even though the students have completed the material, it is not nearly as rigorous, proof-oriented, abstract, and theoretical as the U of M courses. My brother says they are brutal. Anyways:</p>
<p>Math 295 Honors Mathematics I (Generally 1st semester for Freshmen) Student Body: First-year students
Credit: 4 Credits.
Past Texts: Calculus (M. Spivak)
Past Instructors: A. Blass, R. Spatzier, B. Conrad
Background and Goals: The emphasis is on concepts, problem solving, as well as the underlying theory and proofs of important results. It provides an excellent background for advanced courses in mathematics. The expected background is high school trigonometry and algebra (previous calculus not required, but helpful). This sequence is not restricted to students enrolled in the LSA Honors program. Math 295 and 296 may be substituted for any Math 451 requirement. Math 296 and 395 may be substituted for any Math 513 requirement.
Content: Real functions, limits, continuous functions, limits of sequences, complex numbers, derivatives, indefinite integrals and applications, some linear algebra.
Alternatives: Math 156 (Applied Honors Calc II), Math 175 (Combinatorics and Calculus) and Math 185 (Honors Anal. Geom. and Calc. I) are alternative honors courses.
Subsequent Courses: Math 296 (Honors Mathematics II) </p>
<p>Math 296 Honors Mathematics II (Generally 2nd semester for Freshmen)
Student Body: First-year students
Credit: 4 Credits.
Past Texts: Calculus (Spivak)
Past Instructors: A. Blass, D. Barrett, R. Spatzier
Background and Goals: Math 295-296-395-396 is the most theoretical and demanding honors calculus sequence. The emphasis is on concepts, problem solving, as well as the underlying theory and proofs of important results. It provides an excellent background for advanced courses in mathematics. The expected background is high school trigonometry and algebra (previous calculus not required, but helpful). This sequence is not restricted to students enrolled in the LSA Honors program.
Content: Infinite series, power series, metric spaces, some multivariable calculus, implicit functions, definite integrals, and applications.
Alternatives: none
Subsequent Courses: Math 395 (Honors Analysis I) </p>
<p>Math 395 Honors Analysis I (Generally 1st semester for Sophomores)
Student Body: Sophomores
Credit: 4 Credits.
Past Texts: Calculus in Vector Spaces (Corwin)
Past Instructors: . D. Barrett, B. Conrad, G. Prasad
Background and Goals: This course is a continuation of the sequence Math 295-296 and has the same theoretical emphasis. Students are expected to understand and construct proofs.
Content: This course studies functions of several real variables. Topics are chosen from elementary linear algebra, elementary topology, differential and integral calculus of scalar- and vector-valued functions and vector-valued mappings, implicit and inverse function theorems.
Alternatives: none
Subsequent Courses: Math 396 (Honors Analysis II)</p>
<p>Math 396 Honors Analysis II (Generally 2nd semester for Sophomores)
Student Body: Sophomores
Credit: 4 Credits.
Past Texts: Analysis on Manifolds (Munkres).
Past Instructors: D. Barrett, B. Conrad
Background and Goals: This course is a continuation of Math 395 and has the same theoretical emphasis. Students are expected to understand and construct proofs.
Content: Differential and integral calculus of functions on Euclidean spaces.
Alternatives: none
Subsequent Courses: Students who have successfully completed the sequence Math 295-396 are generally prepared to take a range of advanced undergraduate and graduate courses such as Math 512 (Algebraic Structures), Math 525 (Probability Theory), Math 590 (Intro. to Topology), and many others. </p>
<p>Wow, its a long post. I get carried away sometimes. Hope that helps, though!</p>
<p>Thanks man, you certainly know a lot. Actually, after getting waitlisted at Harvard and MIT, it is quite likely I will end up being a uMich honors math major. You other guys who are planning on doing this, can you post stats like SAT, AMC/AIME, and other math stuff you've done so I can be encouraged by who I'll be surrounded by?</p>
<p>Great post, Bisbis.</p>
<p>My son has been admitted to Honors LSA. He a 3-time MOPer and just got into his 4th USAMO. He has to decide between MIT and Michigan, among others. Tough decision.</p>
<p>Comparing to Harvard, I'd say MTH 295-395 is like MATH 25, and MTH 396 is like 1st semster MATH 55. Its pretty tough, as I've seen.</p>
<p>Everyone should do 295-296 over, even if they've done Calculus in high school. To go directly onto 395 in freshmen year is impossible, or so I have heard. Its all proofs, and very abstract. 295 is like that, as well. You need either 295-296 or the Honors Calculus sequence (for those who aren't ready for proofs entering college) to get into 395-396.</p>
<p>My brother's math stats:
11th on MMPC state
120ish on AHSME
6 on AIME
1550 SAT Math.</p>
<p>randomdad, is there really any chance your son would pick uMich over MIT, being so great at math and all?</p>
<p>Chibearsfan, many Michigan residents from middle income families pick Michigan over schools like Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale and Stanford because those universities do not give out any merit aid and middle income families do not qualify for financial aid. So the option is attend Michigan for $5,000-$15,000 (most top in-staters get some sort of aid) or pay $45,000 to attend one of the Big 5 mentioned above. To most students in this position, it is a no brainer...pick Michigan and save $100,000-$150,000 over 4 years of college. And saving money isn't the only reason students pick Micigan over MIT. Some pick Michigan over MIT because they prefer the Michigan culture and atmpshere and feel that Michigan would be a better overall undergraduate experience. Some simply pick Michigan because it is close to home and their loved ones. Obviously, MIT is better than Michigan. MIT is a top 5 university nationally. But Michigan is still one of the top 3 Midwestern universities and one of the top 10 or top 15 universities in the nation. I have known several students at Michigan who turned down Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford or Yale to attend Michigan.</p>
<p>bisbis, Michigan's reputation is indeed widely underrated...among high school students and on this forum. But in academic and professional circles, Michigan is regarded as one of the top 10 or top 15 universities in the nation.</p>
<p>randomdad, congratulations on your son's amazing achievements. </p>
<p>Here's my stats, (and I'm instate, thus the MMPC contest.) I'm a junior who is likely to attend UM.</p>
<p>MMPC -2nd this year (and by .8 arggg), 13th last year.
AMC12 - 132.5
AIME - 10 this year (not an usamo qualifier.)
Mathcamper! yay for mathcamp.</p>
<p>I don't have SAT scores until Monday.</p>
<p>Has anyone taken 295/296? Because I have Spivak, and it's an amazing book compared to the godawful calc BC books out there. What's the howmework like? Problem sets with a few challenging problems?</p>
<p>tetrahedr0n - thanks</p>
<p>chibearsfan- Yes, it is possible. He is thinking things over. I really do not know where he will go.</p>
<p>I hope your son choses Michigan Randomdad! Keep us posted.</p>
<p>I'm starting to feel inferior on this board, and I like it. I'm one of those kids who got BELOW a 200 on the USAMO index, haha. But this stuff is really encouraging to see and I can't wait to be challenged by all the mathematical intelligence at uMich I'll probably be seeing next year.</p>
<p>Chibearsfan, Michigan has a pretty gifted student body. It is a huge school, so in terms of sheer numbers, you are going to have many average students. But as a percentage of the student body, I would only describe the bottom third of the student body as less than good. The remaining two thirds of the student body is at least considered good (3.6+ GPA with 1250+ SAT) . The top 60% of the students body is Ivy League material (3.7+ GPA 1300+ SAT). The top quarter of Michigan's student body is H,S,P,Y, M material (top 1% of HS class, 4.0 GPAs, 1400+ SATs). If you want a challenge, Michigan will not disapoint.</p>
<p>Tetrahedr0n:
Yes, the problems are HARD. I was looking over my brother's 295 HW....all problems were from Spivak, plus a couple others. Every single one of them was a proof..... I felt ashamed I couldn't understand any of it all.... he had spent 20 hours every week on it, (I'm glad I used to live by Ann Arbor, everything was so easy to observe... no dorms for him). Well, that's why it is honors, I guess. I'd recommend repeating them, I guess even if you are good at math. DON'T skip 295/296! I am actually considering U of M, too, but my brother's history there is a big turnoff..... I need to go to a different college (just kidding!)
Anyways, I'm on a roll:</p>
<p>Here's what nearly all Honors Math students take the first 2 years, latter years are an example. Some students take slightly more or less:</p>
<p>Freshmen Year (1st semester):
MTH 295
-elective</p>
<p>Freshmen Year (2nd semester):
MTH 296
-elective</p>
<p>Sophomore Year (1st semester):
MTH 395
MTH 289- Problem Solving Seminar (i.e. Putnam prep)
Math 286 (Honors Differential Equations)</p>
<p>Sophomore Year (2nd semester):
MTH 396
MTH 555- Complex Variables</p>
<p>Junior Year (1st semester):
MTH 289
MTH 512- Linear Algebra (shows how quickly the university prepares you. Grad courses as a junior! Wow...)
MTH 525- Probability Theory</p>
<p>Junior Year (2nd semester):
MTH 513- Algebraic Structures (basically advanced modern algebra)
MTh 590- Topology
MTH 575- Number Theory</p>
<p>Senior Year (1st semester):
MTH 591- General and Differential Topology
MTH 593- Algebra 1
MTH 596- Complex Analysis</p>
<p>Senior Year (2nd semester):
MTH 592- Algebraic Topology
MTH 594- Algebra 2
MTH 597- Real Analysis </p>
<p>This is what a more "motivated", "smart", pure math student does, maybe Top 5 in the program. Note that the last 2 years of this schedule is basically the first 2 years of an average P.hD. math.</p>
<p>Hmm, I'm worried that I won't be prepared math wise for my physics courses. I'll start out with either physics 390 or 401, both require math 216. So I'm not sure what I can do as far as that goes. Perhaps take some summer courses in diff eq. and still start with 295 in the fall. The reason I want to take the theoretical math sequence is because I'm interested in theoretical physics for grad school.</p>
<p>Hey guys, I'm much more interested in the applied math realm because the theoretical stuff just strikes me as an exercise for my mind rather than something practical. I love problem solving and competitions and the like, I'm just not big on proofs (haven't really had any exposure to them). I do pretty well on AIME-type stuff but could never do a USAMO. I'm still a very motivated math student and want to take some really challenging classes, so what would you recommend for someone like me? (I may also major/minor in honors stats).</p>
<p>There is an honors applied math sequence, but I think that may be more for science/engineering than for pure math majors. </p>
<p>Bisbis- Do you have any idea when 295 gets to multivariable?</p>