Honors or Not?

So many great responses thank you! I am tempted to throw him in - partially because he is organized, diligent and is really more comfortable with the academic kids. I thought sure the homework load would have increased this year and I’d be more comfortable if I could have judged this year how he handled it all. But apparently there has been a deliberate push to cut back on middle school homework.

Friend groups in honors classes may be motivating and interesting, but they may also be hyper-competitive and demoralizing. My D found the latter experience with certain people. She still did honors and AP classes (and did well enough to get into her first choice school), but also did a couple of non-honors classes, and found her lasting friend group from the latter groups. Then again, her high school has good teachers across the board, not just in honors classes, and it’s certainly not the case that non-honors classes need strict rules because all the problem kids ended up there… I’m finding it hard to really generalize anything about honors vs non-honors from what posters have said in this thread other than start in honors and then see what happens.

Kids often know exactly how they stand academically with respect to their friends. They’ll say things like “X and I do about equally well in school, except that I’m slightly better in science.” And they’re usually right.

Can your kid identify others who are approximately his academic equals and are NOT the oldest child in their families? Can you find out what level classes those kids are going in to? Information on what experienced families with kids like yours are doing could be helpful.

@ruthstoops, As I mentioned, the homework level increased dramatically for my DD. However, the level of difficulty of the classes went up only marginally (a grade appropriate increment, I’d say). The adjustment was more in terms of the pace, and to accommodate the quick pace, the workload had to increase. So - if you start him in honors - you probably don’t have to worry about your son being out of his league in terms of the actual subject matter. If he can adjust to the pace, he will do just fine.

“I’m finding it hard to really generalize anything about honors vs non-honors from what posters have said in this thread other than start in honors and then see what happens.”

@SJ2727 - I agree. The honors teachers at DD’s school aren’t any different from “on level” teachers. In fact, at our school the same teacher might teach two “on level” geometry classes, an honors algebra 2 class, an honors calculus class, and a department elective. I suspect they spread out the honors classes and the different topics to help the teachers avoid burnout or boredom.

And DD has some super supportive friends among the honors students and some competitive ones, but all her friends in regular levels are in the supportive camp. I go out of my way to encourage her to maintain her old grade school friendships with students with different areas of interest than her, no matter what level they’re at.

Honors.

My feeling is that if your child is able to do honors and wants to, they should. I did honors in everything, but dropped down in both math and science because I didn’t enjoy them enough to spend my time on the extra work. If I was in HS now, I would probably feel compelled to stay at that level because the admissions process has changed so much.

With that said, only one of my children took honors/AP consistently. My D, who attended a school for the gifted in elementary school, adamantly refused to take any honors/AP classes in HS. She attended a state school, from which she graduated magna cum laude. My youngest son took 3 years of honors science, tried both AP Euro and APUSH, and dropped both because his dyslexia made the reading impossible, but took 3 AP classes (APES, AP US Gov’t and AP Psych), all of which he got college credit for. All 3 of these kids had friends in both the honors and non-honors group. For my sons, many of their friends came from their fellow boy scouts, while my D, as well as my youngest son, drew friends from the Drama Club kids.

For the OP’s son, I recommend starting in honors and dropping down if needs be since it’s much harder to move up and catch up than to move down. As for the stricter rules, at our school, all of the classes are essentially the same.

I have had 2 go through the process of registering and I’ll 2nd the argument that it’s easier to drop down then move up. Both of my high schoolers (D22 and S20) have found their interests and started as all Honors/GT track and then figured out what to drop down in to keep their schedule manageable and relate to their interests and yet still keep a rigorous schedules.

Start with honors and see how it goes, if you are recommended for honors. It is easy to drop from Honors to CP classes, but harder to go the other way.

Again thank you all! Two more questions. Would you override the teacher recommendations? Many people do. I don’t see this as a possibility in math or science but possibly in history and english. Also, is it worth it if my son ends up getting B’s in these classes? This would still be a pretty high GPA as an A in honors is a 5.0.

@ruthstoops My kids didn’t have any more work in honors classes than in regular classes. The classes just moved at a faster pace which is what they needed. A B in an honors class is weighted the same as an A in regular but on the transcript it does state honors, so yes it is worth it. Can you clarify overriding the teachers recommendations? Do you mean move up to honors when recommended regulars or move down to regulars when the teacher recommends honors?

At my DD’s school the only way around a teacher’s recommendation was high enough scores on standardized tests. In my experience though, teachers recommendations were usually spot on.

Also, it was usually easier to move up in english, history, foreign language courses in subsequent years than math/science so not quite as important to get into the honors track as a 9th grader…

A couple of Bs won’t make or break an application anywhere but for the uber competitive schools the ad coms jokingly (but not) say that they want As in AP/honors courses.

At the schools (yes, several) my kids went to, the non-honors or non-college prep course were really not very good. The other students didn’t provide a very competitive atmosphere and the teachers moved at a snail’s pace. One of my kids was good at math and science but not so great at English. She took the college prep level and should have taken the honors and AP. Getting an A in a lower level might have been good for the gpa but it wasn’t good for learning.

In our town, you can override the teacher’s verdict on whether they should be in honors. I would typically hew more closely to these evals except I hear often from friends - not the crazy competitive people either - that the town would rather keep these classes smaller. I think you can definitely slide down if it’s too much early in the year, though I’m guessing if you had rejected their advice, they might make it a bit more annoying.

A lot depends on the child and the schools involved, but several of the recent ninth graders I know came out of elementary school with a significant “high school is going to be different” mindset that easily offset any “I rocked this place and should be in honors” attitude. It can take a while for them to realize that they are in fact still in the top tier and still need to be in honors. This is a roundabout way of saying you should take into account any extra (or missing) modesty in the voice of your eighth grader. Parents know their kids and definitely need to put a thumb on this scale.

Also, honors kids eventually establish a small tribe at school since they do tend to end up sharing a lot of the same classes. It may not happen until soph or jr year, and they may not be close, but they do begin to know one another and they are usually an interesting group. But you usually only gain entry to the group by being in class with them or being friends with some of them. It’s worth it to jump in early with the crowd that takes their work seriously if for no other reason than it reinforces that mood at your house.

Start 9th grade by taking Honors classes in the subjects he is strong in. If he is not strong in History, don’t take Honors History freshman year. If he is strong in math and intends to pursue STEM, then take all honors in those subjects.

@ruthstoops your post made me smile, thinking back. You’ve gotten great advice. I will add only this. I pushed both my girls into the hardest classes - full honors, AP, magnet, IB. For D15 (Mizzou ‘19 hooray), it was hard - she really had to work and I helicopter-mom/dragon-mom’d the school to submit to my will. In the end, it did impact her college choices as her non-weighted GPA was a 2.8 (weighted was 3.5). However, she learned how to work hard, and she has had to work hard in college, and she liked associating with the smart kids and identified with a smart kid. D19 is more of a scholar and she is fine w/ the hardest you can throw at her. Our GA in state schools have become very competitive with the statewide merit college opportunities, and they require a non-weighted 3.0 GPA, which was not an option for us. Something to consider - it will all turn out in the end with a thoughtful parent such as yourself.

My younger son had scheduling issues and wound up in a regular instead of honors math one year, it was a real pain to catch up the next year. As long as the teachers think he can handle it, I would take honors courses whenever possible and then drop down a level if the work seems to difficult or time consuming. I do have one son who considered taking honors English senior year and decided not too when he discovered they were going to be reading more books than the AP class! IME it’s pretty hard to tell if a kid is doing poorly in a class because they are bored, or because it’s too hard. Every school is different, and every teacher is different. Some honors classes have reasonable amounts of homework and some don’t. You may want to also talk to other parents.

“Would you override the teacher recommendations?”

You can, but you should find out why they recommended the standard or college prep class. Maybe there was a test (not typical for 9th grade honors, more for APs).

“I think you can definitely slide down if it’s too much early in the year, though I’m guessing if you had rejected their advice, they might make it a bit more annoying.”

Find out the policy on that, you can override a honors or AP recommendation as well in schools out here, but in some, once you start the tougher class, you can’t drop down.

Do remember that unweighted grades may be used by colleges- and they expect students to do the most rigorous schedule appropriate for them. Do not count on top grades in average classes meaning as much as good-top grades in top classes. Remember that improvement also counts so freshman grades are not as important as those as a junior. Most importantly- have your child sign up for the classes where the most learning will be done. Too easy, won’t learn as much. Too difficult, won’t learn as much. Most of us did our best for our kids and no one did a perfect job (only hindsight is 20/20).

Definitely have a parent-teacher talk about why they give a class recommendation for your child. Find out how things work in your school district.

As for grades, it realy depends on where he is aiming. If he is not taking all or mostly honors, he is not likely to be aiming for elite colleges. A couple of Bs, especially freshman year, will not impact his ability to get into some excellent colleges. If he finds honors is too hard, he can drop down in sophomore year and beyond.

I have over-ridden with generally good results, but only when i though my kid was capable of the harder work. I did have to get a tutor for one of them, but it really helped with study skills. In our district HS a student has to stay in honors (after the first few weeks) for at least one marking period and can only change if there is room in a college prep class (and can require moving several classes around). They have to keep the grade they got in honors (unweighted) moving into the lower level class.