“OSU comes to mind” - based on my D’s experience, OSU does not offer much in Merit scholarships. She got only $3k / year. For comparison, Miami (OH) offered her full tuition Merit scholarship and Case offer was $27k / year at a time when tuition at Case was about $32-33k.
“1000 honors students” - must be huge programs. D’s Honors college had only top 200 kids.
^As for tOSU, you may be right. I believe the Buckeye award alone would make it more affordable (among several other benefits) than or flagship, UIUC.
My D is a first year at a highly rated honors college located within a flagship that is not a top public like UMich, UVA, etc. She is a smart kid (but not super high-stats) who wanted strong academics and opportunities for research and internships, but not a super-intellectual atmosphere.
Based on what she’s told me, her two non-honors classes (intro classes with <40 students) are not a heavy lift. She thinks the teaching is good but student interest level is low (e.g., many cut the 8 AM class but I guess that’s not unusual). Two of her three Honors classes are very challenging–lots of writing and she really has to prepare to be able to participate in the class discussions. The third Honors class is easy (also an intro class). Next semester she will likely have another 3 Honors classes (two Gen Ed, one in her major).
She lives in (exclusively) Honors housing. She has a number of friends, but the dorm is pretty quiet and has a lot of singles, so not much casual interaction. She prefers the “vibe” at a friend’s dorm where people leave their doors propped open, drop in and out, etc. She seems to have sufficient time for both fun and schoolwork.
Perfect description of why she chose this school. She loved the atmosphere, location, and strong program in her intended major. Her dad and I were impressed with all of the above and with the merit package. Admission to the Honors College took it from contender to top choice.
I have a son in the campus honors program at UIUC. The UIUC CHP sounds so different from other programs, but it seems like it will be a good experience for my son. (It did not require a separate application.) He’s only a freshman, but likes his assigned mentor and really likes the honors class he chose.
There is also a difference between an Honors Program and an Honors College. Honors Colleges usually have more rigorous requirements and a thesis in the end. My D is at the University of South Carolina that has a very highly ranked Honors College ( which we really didn’t know until she started). She loved the honors dorm and certainly found plenty of people that had a great balance of academic and social focus (herself included). She enjoyed her honors classes because they were capped at 18 students. Her freshman year of the 34 hours she took - only 6 were not honors. We have friends kids in other flagship honors classes that only take 3 hours of honors a semester.
Miami must have changed the amount of kids in honors program since your daughter was there MiamiDP because I think it’s closer to 450 now.
@ahsmuch
I don’t know that that descriptor is accurate either. My son is part of an honors program within an honors college. The program only accepts 40 students/year and due to its core requirements is actually a minor.
Post #24- wrong about relative rigor of Honors College vs Honors Program.
UW-Madison has an excellent Honors Program. Thesis (or grad level courses, better for math) required. Plus several Honors sequences in sciences and liberal studies. Plus Honors courses/credit all throughout the college years. No special dorms- great because one size does not fit all for preferences in housing and UW has many different atmospheres in Res Halls. No merit aid- they get top students without needing to pay them. Currently any students can apply (and do the essay) since in recent years the overall caliber of applicants has risen. Fluid in/out, taking courses.
You need to look at the programs/colleges at each school of interest. Look at courses offered- both in any proposed major/school/college of the U and breadth ones. Look at requirements for an Honors degree.
The peer group matters. Not all courses will be for Honors and you want to be with upper level students the entire experience, not only in those for Honors. Therefore pay attention to the overall university caliber.
I found some disappointments when doing an online search for the fun of it. Some schools only had courses for the first year or two. Some had required specific classes- instead of taking an in depth course in a specific subject they combined them. Some schools only offer one general chemistry sequence for all students- UW is a top 5 or 10 in this and had 3 different sequences, based on intent and background, H/nonH. It is not necessary to live in a separate dorm. Humanities focused students are different in STEM focused students- and even some with the same major prefer different living environments (UW has two main areas of types- Southeast high rises and Lakeshore). Students in the UW Honors Program can get Honors in the major, something or Comprehensive Honors- which is both. Students often have labs including exposure to grad labs. Plus- imagine taking grad level courses in many departments that are top 10 or 20 and being with those students.
The bottom line- pick overall good fit (academically, socially, financially) schools. Then compare their Honors options.
"There is also a difference between an Honors Program and an Honors College. " - I never heard of this. Honors Program and an Honors College are the same thing, people just use different vocabulary.
As I mentioned, Honors are not really more difficult than non-Honors. D’s Honors English was easy and complete waste of time for her, she learned nothing new. Her non-Honors Spanish was very challenging and remain very useful for my D. The difference is that Honors may be a bit more time consuming with a bit more work. But it is well compensated by the prof’s availability and that is why many kids think that Honors classes are actually easier. Now, do not mix into this discussion the fact that there is a difference in graduating with Honors and Graduating with Honors with Distinction. Those who are interested in later, just have to produce some paper.
Maybe it is different from college to another. At D’s UG, it was clear cut that Honors program/college accepted top 200 applicants and there was another program called “Scholars” that accepted the next best 500.
Labs are requirements of some classes and has nothing to do with being in Honors. There are also opportunities at any UG to intern in Research labs in the projects that run primarily by Grad. students and PhD’s. Again, this opportunities have nothing to do with Honors program/college. Interested students just apply to these positions in the same way as they would apply to any job. My D. was interning in Med. Research Lab at her college for three years. Her project was running by a Grad. student. D. herself wrote proposals for 2 grants for this project and received both of them. D. also had many classes that had lab. requirements and the lab part of these classes was graded separately from the lecture part. All of the above had nothing to do with her being in Honors.
The biggest benefits of Honors are priority registration and being in much smaller classes. The priority registration was a savior for my very busy student. Do not underestimate that!
Actually, it’s a bit more than semantics - Honors College and Honors Program tend to be different things. An Honors College has a Dean, with staff dedidcated to the honors students, more resources dedicated to it and more autonomy to manage/raise funds - they are treated like a college within the university, rather than like a department. The switch from “program” to “college” typically also means specific facilities, a more comprehensive program of recruitment with the idea of expansion (ie., trying to have a real “college” rather than a cohort of 50 students so that top students have many peers), and greater recognition within the university, with the funding that comes with it. Honors Colleges typically offer a comprehensive set of classes whereas Honors programs typically only offer enough for 1 or 2 classes per semester to be “honors” (although that also happens with some “honors colleges”.) There are “honors programs” within “honors colleges”.
Honors programs offer different perks - my daughter’s does not give priority registration but offers housing in one of the only air conditioned freshman dorms. At her school, honors is what you make of it - they offer lectures, cultural, and social events (which are not required and have limited spaces) - they have honors sections and honors only classes and honors only study abroads - you can pick and choose which you want to participate in.
In one entry level class the honors and non-honors are the same except for some extra assignments and an extra problem on the final. In others the curriculum may be very different (my daughter’s honors intro to microeconomics class was actually more intense than the non-honors advanced micro class she took).
As some have said, you need to find a college where you fit and then the honors program should be the cherry on the top for you. Also, having non-honors and honors classes helps you to manage your workload and to broaden your social circle. My thinking is that advanced classes in your major should be challenging (without needing to be honors) and connect you with people who share your interest.
^ and, at some colleges where there is a strong fit, there may not be a fit within the honors program, for a variety of reasons. S was admitted to several honors programs, but was considering at least one school strongly where he didn’t want to join the honors program b/c it didn’t really provide any significant benefit to him, in his opinion.
He ended up at a larger U in the Honors program, and one of the principal benefits for him is taking honors sections of classes with <20 kids starting Freshman year. He thrives in a small group setting where he can participate a lot, so it is great for him. As far as work, the program has depth and breadth requirements within the honors program (outside of the liberal arts core), and he has to do a thesis related to his major senior year.
Agree about honors program fit - my daughter was accepted to one honors program that she felt was too exclusive (only 30 kids at a big school) - she did not want to be stuck with this small number of kids for the next 4 years (there were several required honors classes.)
And yes, the honors sections at her school are set are smaller numbers- which is another benefit.
Thanks for the responses. It’s looking like Honors is becoming more of a nice-to-have, rather than pretty-important-to-have, at least in our search. I think I may have been placing too much of a premium on it, when really it will probably be a little less of influencing factor than I originally thought.
When comparing programs/colleges it is like apples and oranges- both are fruits but so many similarities and differences. This is why one needs to first find schools that are appealing, then look at Honors possibilities.
Anecdotes about one’s child finding a particular honors class at a particular college being easy/hard et al cannot be used to generalize across schools, courses etc. So much depends on the individual student’s strengths, background, interest, how a given course is taught, the overall caliber of the school’s students- so many variables. One gifted student may find a given subject easy or hard based on several factors as well. What we can do is offer ideas on how things are variable so the OP knows what to look at.
OP- I think you now have an idea of how varied things are. Good luck in helping your child (reworded because it is the student who needs to make the decisions, we parent just open their eyes and nudge-push in some cases?) find an affordable option with a good peer group. It is refreshing for a top HS student to discovers/he is no longer at the top. Public U Honors is a place to find many elite college capable students.
Not all schools have the same research opportunities, especially for those in regular sections of sciences. Most college students do just fine making it through the regular classes and are not geared towards grad/professional school (even at elite U’s- not all of their grads get PhDs).
OP- I would be willing to bet that a school your child finds intriguing will have the academic opportunities in line with abilities and interests. There are many, not just one, schools that will be good.
I encourage my daughter to apply for the Honors Program (which she did, and got in)…she can decide over the years it if it is worth pursuing or not. I know as a freshman she likes being in the honors dorm as it is not as “wild” as the other freshman dorms.
It all can vary so much by school and major that you really can’t generalize. For instance, I would choose certain majors even if non-honors at flagship A over honors at flagship B, etc.