Honors programs at state universities

Parents Forum
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<p>Would love some btdt experiences, specifically addressing the following:</p>

<p>More work? Harder classes? More connections upon graduating? Mostly humanities honors classes?</p>

<p>I know the thought is that the benefit is smaller classes and a closer knit group of students who are perhaps higher achievers or more like-minded. </p>

<p>But for a student who isn't necessarily looking for more challenging coursework nor even a closer knit group of students, is there any point in applying to be in an honors program?</p>

<p>Enlighten me, please.</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

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<p>Better advising? First choice for classes? Better housing?</p>

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<p>It varies widely by State U. The only way to evaluate is to look at each program. There is no consistency.</p>

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<p>The Honors Programs vary widely from school to school. These are also different from Honors Colleges. I like the way UW-Madison runs theirs- even better now than in my day. UW does not have special housing- students too diverse and housing choices also diverse. Easy to take as few or as many Honors course in any semester- but to earn the Honors degree you need so many honors credits, exact numbers/courses depends on your major. UW does not have required general Honors courses like some I’ve seen with my online perusal- good in my book because you do not end up with general survey courses to meet science/humanities et al requirements. There are three ways of getting Honors credit (a B or better required, btw)- Honors course, Honors section of a course or arranged extra work to get Honors credit. </p>

<p>Look at the Honors courses/ability to get Honors credit in a school’s online timetable. How many are available in upper division ones? Is the program only for the first two years? What are Honors degree requirements? What is available in majors you are interested in? Engineering at UW considers its curriculum difficult enough they don’t do the L&S Honors program- but there are Honors courses in L&S an engineering student may desire. UW-Madison offers specfic Honors sequences in math, chemistry and physics freshmen can take and Biocore (biology) requiring organic chemistry. There are other sequences in other areas as well. Plus other Honors courses. Grad level courses may be available to undergrads- in math it is common to take these instead of the otherwise required senior Honors research thesis for two semesters to get the Honors degree in the major. There are also different types of Honors degree designations- in the major, comprehensive and another, depending on which criteria are met.</p>

<p>You need to know if a university has the courses in your area- the “best” or “worst” is a matter of availability in your field of interest. I would take housing off the list if the entire caliber of the U is such that you are with your academic peers in general- eg some of the top ranked flagships/other U’s.</p>

<p>Honors classes typically draw the better students- those who are willing to put in more effort to get more offered in a course version. The course may or may not be more difficult. It depends on your strengths/aptitude/background in a subject. </p>

<p>The way UW does things you can be as independent of others as you choose. No segregation in housing et al. Not “close knit” because of being in Honors. Most won’t know or care if you do/don’t take the courses. Too many diverse students to stereotype.</p>

<p>No matter where you attend college the reason to take Honors courses is to get more from a given course. Often these are the courses desired by teaching staff- professors or TA’s (a full prof is not needed to teach beginning languages for example, and TA’s conduct discussions and supervise labs). Students likely WANT to be in the course. Your intellectual peers are likely to be with you- leading to discussions that can be more interesting to you.</p>

<p>Do not consider Honors for post college connections. Consider it for your intellectual benefit.</p>

<p>I will add that some Honors course can be a joke and not live up to their title. Some will seem easy to some students who find all academic work easy. I do know that with computers the Honor’s program at UW has expanded to offer a lot more to its students via email offerings than in my day- the extras I have not listed above. At one time in recent years I subscribed to their emailing and learned about all sorts of things now available.</p>

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<p>D2 got better housing during the dorm years. She says that she loves the smaller classes, the more in depth nature of the material, often superior quality of student discussions, often (though not always) better teachers as it relates to them seeming to be more enthusiastic in their lectures and being respectful of her knowledge and opinions, and a HUGE perk, early registration. </p>

<p>It’s occasionally been a problem when she has to take an honors class, but the only available classes conflict with the time of another required course. She’s usually been able to work it out, though.</p>

6

<p>This would be UT Dallas’ Collegium V Honors College. Just not sure it’s the right fit. If my son went to UTD, he’d be an Arts & Tech major.</p>

<p>He really doesn’t know what he wants.</p>

<p>I visited UTD with my oldest son during the McDermott Scholars finals weekend and they talked a lot about the honors college. At the time, it didn’t sound all that interesting to him, but this is a different kid and a different major. </p>

<p>I guess we can dig into the website and try to get more info.</p>

7

<p>The Honors College at my University provides early class registration - earlier than any other class/group/program in the school; so we’re are almost always guaranteed the class we want. That is my favorite part of the HC perks - since I’m a commuter, scheduling is super important and I know non-Honors Freshman who couldn’t get into any of the classes or times they wanted because they’d all filled up when it was their turn to register. </p>

<p>We also get individualized advising from professional advisors rather than general faculty members. So while most students get a standard advisor (usually a professor in their department) - we get an HC advisor, general advisor, and major advisor. My advising session was an hour and it was incredibly helpful - I mapped out my degree plan, had clarifying questions answered (and verified), and it was just overall a positive experience. A lot of people struggle with their advisors/advising sessions, but the Honors advisors seem very amiable and helpful across the board. </p>

<p>We have special scholarships/grants exclusive to Honors College students. These include full tuition scholarships, study abroad scholarships, book stipends, etc. </p>

<p>We have a special Honors College “neighborhood” which is a set of offices, lounge areas, computer labs, set aside for honors students - which is really nice because sometimes the computers in our library get filled during particular times of the day (like around noon) so it’s nice knowing that I can just go to the “neighborhood” and there’ll be a silent study room with available computers and whatnot. </p>

<p>There’s a lot of HC events that allow for alumni networking and internship/research opportunities. Two HC alumni - one a graduate of Dartmouth Medical School and one a graduate of Columbia Law School came to talk to us about pre-law and pre-med preparation. </p>

<p>However, there are also requirements/quasi-benefits that I don’t really care for. </p>

<p>Smaller classes are considered a benefit - honors classes are capped at 20 students, and more often than not, enrollment falls short of that, so most honors classes have 6-15 students. I don’t really like small classes - I prefer the anonymity of larger lectures or just mid sized 30-35 student classes. When a class has 5 or 6 students, there’s a lot of pressure to participate and discuss, and I don’t necessarily like that style of teaching/learning. </p>

<p>We are required to take 4 honors classes (and pass with B or higher) - they cover general ed requirements but I finished most of my general ed classes, so I’m gonna have to take them as arbitrary electives, taking up space that could be devoted to a second major… The honors classes sound interesting enough (there’s one on Kanye West, one on the portrayal of Italians in the media, etc) but I don’t like how I HAVE to take a set number of classes on top of my minor and major classes, along with diversity requirements. We also have to demonstrate proficiency in mathematics and foreign language - so we have to take math through Calculus and foreign language through the intermediary level. I already waived the latter through Latin classes I took in high school - but I’m not too thrilled to take Calc. :(</p>

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<p>Thanks for giving us some points to consider and discuss, @preamble1776‌ . While my son generally likes to speak up in his college classes, if it’s not a subject that he cares for, he’s not inclined to want to do so. And he can be very picky and particular about classes. I think the fewer requirements he has outside of his major of interest and classes of interest, the better he likes it. So honors might not be the best fit. </p>

<p>When we were discussing colleges, for instance, he was actually hoping to find ones that don’t require foreign language. He wants to study languages on his own and at a more leisurely pace than most classes offer. </p>

<p>So things like that can affect his decisions. But he’s young; things change. So who knows how he’ll feel once he’s in his four year school.</p>

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<p>@preamble1776 That sounds like a terrific Honors Program. Are you comfortable disclosing where you attend?</p>

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<p>sbjdorlo–I’ll PM you. </p>

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<p>Differences- required specific “Honors” classes or a wide variety of Honors classes one can utilize that are in one’s major, or in another one. Look at the specifics of courses required and available at each of the schools considered. Flexibility can matter. Are you out if you don’t take any Honors courses in a semester? It can be refreshing to have a larger lecture with a small Honors discussion. So many ways to do things. My Honors Chemistry labs offered chances to work in grad labs on a project- everyone did different things. Chances to experience cutting edge research for a few weeks. </p>

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<p>Like others have mentioned, benefits include priority registration, better advising, honor’s housing options (but not required), nice study lounge, small seminar-type classes that replace core requirements in Humanities, English, Fine Arts, and a few other areas. There are different levels of honors at D’s school. D chose the “Honors Designation” which is noted on her diploma and probably an Honor’s cord to wear at commencements. She has to take 15 credit hours of honors classes total. </p>

<p>She loved her class this fall, and will be taking a fan fiction honor’s class in the spring where she’ll be writing continuations of popular books like Twilight and Shades of Grey. She will also get points for using a class Tumblr account. It certainly is not harder, but that could also depend on the class. Grades are based mostly on class participation and papers and maybe a group project. There are no exams in the Honor’s College classes at D’s school. The fan fiction spring class filled up in minutes after midnight on the day priority registration started. D is so glad she decided to do the Honor’s Designation after being unsure about it this time last year. The priority registration is one of the best perks.</p>

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<p>At D’s school Honors classes considered to be easier overall because of greater prof’s availability in a small class setting.
D. specifically never mentioned more challenging or not, her most challenging were her upper Bio classes ( I do not believe that they were Honors or if Honors designation at this level even existed).<br>
The biggest advantage of being in Honors was priority registration. Having challenging major with the requirement of completing some classes before taking MCAT and 2 minors in addition created scheduling challenges that may not have been possible to overcome without priority registration. Also Honors college had a tiny additional Merit award.
D. was not specifically looking for being only in a crowd of valedictorian pre-meds. Opporsite, she was seeking the variety of kids to be around. So, to be in Honors and on pre-med track actually pushed her to add a Music minor and to be in sorority, both of which were very positive experiences in UG for her. She still is very much connected to her sorority sisters (she is currently 4th year Med. Student) and was engaged in musicals for fund raising at her Med. School.
If one eligible for Honors, why not be in Honors? I do not see any negatvies of being in Honors, except maybe the crowd a bit too intense, which could be widen by engaging in other organizations, activities, but this one is really a personla preference.</p>

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<p>As a professor, I am ambivalent about honors programs at state schools. </p>

<p>I do not embrace them for several reasons. On one hand, I would rather see scarce resources (and resources are very scarce at most state schools) go to students who need assistance succeeding in difficult majors, paying for books, or finishing in four years. Resources also could go the labs, libraries, and arts which benefit all. On the other hand, I see self-motivated administrators luring high achieving high schools students to raise the university’s profiles. When the students come, they often find that regular classes are not as rigorous as they might be elsewhere. This semester in a regular course, I had two superb honors students whose intellectual desires could not be met by the syllabus. As other students struggled, I provided some extra work to the willing honors students, but that is not the same as being in a demanding class with many, intellectually engaged students.</p>

<p>In the end, I guess they are a reasonable compromise for students who cannot get scholarships at better schools, but generally speaking, honors programs are not amazing.</p>

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<p>^I am not sure if this suggestion is taking into consideration the fact that state schools will loose tons of very top students who are engaged (unknowingly or actually being hired by school) in lots of tutoring and bringing the GPAs of others up. At least, my D. was told (I do not think that she is an exception) that she has broght grades in Gen. Chem. class up by her SI activity, position that she was hired by her school for 3 years. She was told that by prof who was teaching the class, based on the students comments. Her session sometime were reaching 40 kids in class. They told her many times that she made material much easier to understand. It is a known fact that sometime peer’s explanation may make a huge difference in understanding, they speak the same language. She received a leadership medal at graduation for this awarded by prof. in a class. She was on a min. wage. I believe that she saved lots of prof’s hours (and lots of money for university), and as a personal benefit did not need to study Gen. Chem. for the MCAT.<br>
My D. was not any exception. This type of activities, formal and informal (D. was involved in many group studying) is very well known at UGs. Both sides gain a lot, the helpers and the crowd that they are helping to. Do not underestimate and overlook this side. This is NOT pulling resources from where they are needed the most, it is pulling resources into the right direction.<br>
I did not hear any “amazing” stories about Honors program from my D. As it has been noted by others and in my prvious post, the greatest benefit is a priority registration, smaller classes and sometime a small Merit award. </p>

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<p>I will say that there is a particular culture within my school’s Honors College that I do not necessarily jive with. There seems to be this elitism - this “us” versus “them” dynamic that a lot of Honors students (particularly freshmen) have internalized. They’re under this notion that they’re bound to far greater success in life than the non-Honors student body. </p>

<p>Someone had tried to imply that only Honors College students “want” to be in school - and that everyone else was forced to be there by someone else and thus they were gonna end up “with a 2.0, flipping burgers for the rest of their life.” Then there are more general remarks about non-Honors students being “idiots” or being “illiterate.” It makes me incredibly uncomfortable because it is such utter nonsense and I sometimes want to just shake them. And then when you try to call them out on this type of stuff, they get really offended because they feel as though you are attacking all the “hard work” they did in high school to be there. I had no idea that a 2000+ SAT score entitled you to be a jerk. </p>

<p>It isn’t even elitism. I don’t like elitism - particularly when it comes to education, since I understand that there are many, many paths in life to get where you want to be (and not all of them appear in USNWR); but we’re talking about students within a state school making fun of other students in the state school - it’s not elitism, it’s just straight up delusion. </p>

<p>I don’t know if this is common amongst Honors Colleges - but it is certainly something I’ve seen here in the course of one semester. Hopefully it’ll die down soon.</p>

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<p>^I never heard anything like this.
In fact D. has mentioned about her desire of not feeling isolated to intense pre-med crowd many times. Actually, she had the same desire at Med. School where she avoided super-intense crowd as much as she could. She always wanted to be with down to earth kids with very wide range of interests who she can talk “normally” and not discuss academics all the time, she and her friends did not need it in their lives at all, it is not what the friends are for, not for more of the the snobby separation from the rest. Later, she attributed this type of behavior to social immaturity which is an obstacle at Med. School. </p>

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<p>D2 went to a smaller state school and was invited to be a part of their Honors program. Thus far, here are the advantages: separate housing, priority registration, presidential scholarship money and smaller class sizes with in-depth study. They also provide social events that are meant to create mentorships between upperclassmen and freshmen. She advises not to join any honors program just to look good. The classes are rigorous and thought-provoking. However, many are humanities-based. Since she is a CS major, she may need to drop after her sophomore year, but the program coordinator has said he will modify the curriculum to mesh with her major. This honors program is an attempt to keep some of the brightest students in-state and from our conversations, I think it is doing so.</p>

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<p>It’s just the narcissism of small differences. Probably lets them feel better about not going to Harvard or even Duke.</p>

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<p>I think that everyone else has summed it up pretty well, but back to your original question:

I think it depends on the program/college. For the Honors College my son was in, you had to be passionate and dedicated to your major. The average student might not appreciate the “spotlight” on them. BUT… the perks ARE there.</p>