I would stay with honors. B in Honors is the same as A in regular.
The students she is in with honors are going to be more academically focused.
She will be on track for other honors classes (like others say, she may have an easier time with)
She will learn that sometimes you need to learn outside the classroom…tutor, Khan academy online, practice problem books, study group, office hours.
A next step of Precalc and then CalcAB is a fine plan. Don’t worry about skipping.
Another thing you both can do is look at this issue: “As mathprof63 said above, the tests do seem to be from another planet. She said they never seem to be anything like what they are doing or how they are doing it or how it is presented.”
Look at a test question like this. See where it is covered in the book. See where it is covered in her notes. See what kind of homework was done on it. Did she actually read that chapter? What was different about it?
Can she talk to her teacher and say “we did this kind of problem like this in HW, but this test problem was different. How should i approach this?”
Only when you as a parent have gone all in on one set of highly competitive schools. From your posting I have to wonder if your attitude has also come through to your child and has created part of the stress. Do you really think this one class will decide her future college? There is much more to it than that.
I think this is partly dependent on how she feels about herself. If getting a “B” is crushing her spirit, and making her think she is “bad at math”, then I would move her down. It can take years (or a lifetime) to recover from that. I think people can get way to focused on one class or one grade.
In general, I push my kids to take honors, mostly because then they will be around smart, motivated student-peers. But I allowed my daughter to drop AP Physics when the teacher was horrid. I think you need to be supportive of her needs.
Actually the EA stats for our state college were just posted. Of those accepted, 90% of their grades were As…straight from admissions office. Good school but not even the top 50 or therabouts, at best.
Yes, there are plenty of other schools…but will cost a lot more money.
My son is on the regular track for math. He was able to get a A in Algebra 1 and currently has one in Algebra II. However he had trouble in Geometry and ended with a B. he just couldn’t get it. I’m not sure why but even on his SAT/ACT tests the geometry questions were the ones that gave him trouble. I really don’t think a B in a math classes is going to make or break your DD’s college applications.
Getting Cs on tests means she is memorizing something but has not yet made the connection from knowing learning material to using it to solve problems. An 85 is a decent grade. For a B (even a C quarter grade), I wouldn’t move her down to regular geometry. I would continue having a tutor work with her and you can also work with her to see if you can find the disconnect. There may be an aha moment later in the year.
Do NOT skip PreCalc. That would be where she needs to solidify her math foundation for calculus. It’s okay if she “only” has HCalc or even precalc.
The top 50 is a tiny universe when looking at universities and colleges. This outlook may be a factor in stressing your child. I know. I was that parent. When I let go of that mindset, a couple of things happened: 1) I discovered a lot of interesting schools - ones I would have liked to have attended - existed outside the Ivies; 2) my relationship with my child improved; and 3) my child grew more because I let her go.
One B amongst many As isn’t going to doom any student.
My child was by no means a stellar, straight A student. We were thrilled with straight Bs (she was in a STEM program) in honors and AP classes and the occasional A. She was accepted to schools where they reported median grades of 3.8, 3.9. D’s weighted GPA was 3.75 (unweighted GPA was probably closer to 3.1, 3.2), so she was definitely below the median. Costwise, the net cost is about the same as for the instate flagship, solely on merit aid (we don’t qualify for any needbased aid) Chances are, your child will do fine in the college application process.
I think it’s important for your daughter to feel good about math. Moving her to the lower level might relieve her stress and give her the opportunity to excel in the class and begin to feel good about math again. My daughter chose not to do honors math early on because she was not comfortable with math. She was able to excel in her regular math classes and actually began to like math. She is a senior now and is taking AP Calculus. She sees a tutor once a week and currently her grade is about 88% in the class. For her, this was the right thing to do.
Erin’s Dad…I think time is a big factor. Something we need to explore.
SlackerMomMD…I am encouraged by your stats. Thanks!
I would like to thank everyone for the many and well-reasoned responses. This has been a frustrating class and we will all learn a lot from the experience.
Most kids stumble with geometric proofs. I’d stay the course and get her a bit of tutoring. Usually a bright student like your daughter ‘gets it’ after a bit of a frame shift.
Similar situation with my daughter. She chose to use her time to focus on other classes and to take regular level math. She got all A’s in regular high school math and then got A’s in college pre med calculus too (at a prestigious university). What a difference having a non-honors class made on a day to day basis for her. And she still learned plenty of math (for her). Sometimes you just have to give kids permission to take the pressure off.
For your instate flagship, I am guessing the 90% A average is weighted, not unweighted. For comparison, our instate flagship, Indiana Bloomington, takes the higher of weighted and unweighted. So lots of kids from schools which weight grades are admitted with gpas over a 4.0. Our school district doesn’t weight any grades, and from our school, students taking a rigorous curriculum need about a 3.5 to be comfortable in the knowledge they will be admitted.
Before you panic that your student will not get into your flagship, research its admissions data more carefully. If your school has Naviance, take a look at results. Look at the university’s Common Data Set, it publishes percentages of students with gpas falling in different ranges.
A B in Honors Geometry doesn’t doom her to anything. It’s a weighted grade so she makes up the slack on the slightly lower grade with the weighting. While it may mean she isn’t valedictorian, that is really quite insignificant in the scheme of college admissions. Admissions departments want kids who have challenged themselves academically and explored their interests outside of class with their ECs.
Last year D16 got the only C of her life in accelerated pre-calculus. She struggled all year with it and refused to drop down or give up.
This year she’s getting an A (so far) in AP Calculus AB, and says it’s much easier and she’s enjoying the class. I believe part of this is due to maturity, and part of it is due to having a better teacher.
I think you’ve probably already made up your mind, but I thought I’d add our experience here.
How did she do in algebra? Was she in honors last year or is she a freshman? We went through this as well, especially with my youngest. He bounced from regular to honors and back again, making As with pretty much no effort in college prep, and low Bs or maybe even a C+ in honors. He ended up in AP Calc AB and did well. Most of the kids that stuck with honors all the way through math took Calc BC. He got into our state flagship and other good, but not elite, universities. Our flagship looks at unweighted averages, but with strong test scores, a C or 2 is not going to keep a kid from acceptance.
The other issue is whether the honors/AP science track requires honors math. Our district said that it did, but in reality my son was able to take honors physics even though he had not been in honors algebra2 and did fine.
If she is taking honors in other core subjects, it may make sense for her to drop down in math so she has one less demanding class. OTOH, getting a B or even a C in an honors class will not ruin her chances. I would look at her overall schedule going forward and see what the level of work/stress will be and what schools she is targeting for college.
Can she still drop down? You probably have to decide really soon.
By the time my daughter got to trig she was beginning to like math. She decided to take pre-calc over the summer so she could take AP calc her senior year. Now she’s in her calc class - she says it’s hard but she likes it and is doing well in the class. She does have a tutor who she sees one hour each week. That helps a lot. Her taking AP calc is not because it looks good on an application, she just doesn’t want to go to college and have to take calculus for the first time. Once she’s in college she plans to retake the class for mastery. She has applied to pre-med & BS/MD programs.
The comment about a B in honors equaling an A in regular is not true. Some colleges only look at unweighted gpa’s. Plus- getting a B in honors may mean not learning all of the same core material presented in both versions. It is best to learn the material. It may be easier to learn the core material without the extra material presented for some students. For some the pressures of being with better students and always coming up short may outweigh any advantages. No one should be expected to be tops in everything. Sometimes it is good to be challenged and realize the grade will be a B. Other times it is best to not stress oneself over a subject.
The final decision should be based on how your child feels about it. If she actively wants one version or the other she needs to take the preferred one. She’ll be happier. Being happier means less stress and more able to do the work. Whatever she decides there need to be no regrets.
And she still learned plenty of math (for her). Sometimes you just have to give kids permission to take the pressure off.