She’s scored in that range in timed practice tests, per post #2:
So 170 would seem attainable. @Gourmetmom, what kind of test prep did she do? Was it self-prep, online classes, or classroom instruction?
Thanks for all of the responses! I’m definitely getting a better understanding of the situation. She self-prepped using past exams…I think she took 20 or so full, timed old tests. When she does section by section, meaning when she does a section one evening, and another the next day, she rarely gets any questions wrong. Based on this, it seems that her main issue is endurance…which is why she took so many full, timed tests - trying to overcome the sloppy mistakes one makes after fatigue. Also, she felt that the February sitting had a particularly bad reading passage for her, while the experimental section was great. I don’t believe she got any of the logic games wrong, which was her weakest area before she starting prepping. Such is life.
My kids all self-prepped SATs with great results…for a good and motivated student, it seems to be the best method.
What type of prep should she do going forward? She’s already taken the last few years of actual exams, up to the one administered last September. She doesn’t seem to think there is much more she can do, which is probably the main basis for not wanting to take it again. Suggestions???
“My kids all self-prepped SATs with great results…for a good and motivated student, it seems to be the best method.”
I walked into the SAT without studying and got a nearly perfect score, but I studied hard for the LSAT and wish I had studied more. Different ball game.
Best bet? Have her go to a Kaplan test prep thing where you take a full-length, timed LSAT. Then the score she gets on that is used for her “high score guarantee,” so if she doesn’t beat it on the actual LSAT, she gets her money back. Then take a course or get tutoring, take as many timed tests as possible, and re-take in June.
Endurance could be the issue, or it could be that the LSAT is really time crunched and it’s tempting to give yourself a little extra time. But I would suggest that a student who can’t make it through the LSAT needs to learn how to take a long test before her entire semester grade is based on those tests in law school.
I agree with ariesathena; she should take a Kaplan class, which I did (20 years ago). It was tremendously helpful, although the fact that I studied nonstop for months, using the class materials, was more helpful than the classes themselves.
I think that she’d be fine, even at BC or BU, though. Her undergrad school’s name on her resume and its alumni network will give her advantages that people at BC and BU who went to places such as Northeastern and Suffolk will not have.
Yeah, i don’t think everyone can get a 99th percentile LSAT score. Also the average LSAT score of Harvard undergrads who take it is 166, so testing well on the SAT does not mean you will do well on the LSAT. The SAT is just easier and more knowledge based than the LSAT and can be gamed through hard work. A lot of people take the SATs cold without studying, so that skews the percentiles. The LSAT is more of just an IQ test. Plus it’s pretty normal to score lower in your real test than on practice tests.
I would retake the LSAT and if she still does mediocrely and doesn’t get in anywhere good, I’d probably not go to law school unless you’re covering full costs and can afford her to have a lower paying job.
It never ceases to amaze me just how optimistic some of the posters are. I.e, she’s gonna get to Harvard Law! Retake the LSAT!
@SeattleTW: She has a 3.7. Her practice LSATs have gone as high as 173, with most in the 169-170 range. How can she get into the 99th percentile? She’s already there most of the time. All we are doing is telling her to go retake to obtain the score she regularly achieves anyways. Harvard isn’t guaranteed at those numbers, but it’s a real possibility. At the very worst, it will turn into larger scholarships elsewhere. I think the problem here is your lack of reading, not our optimism.
Harvard’s median is 173 and 25th is 170. I doubt she will get a 173 with her practice test range (most people score lower on the real test compared to practice and she ran out of tests to use) and i doubt she will get into Harvard but she might get into lower ranked top 14 if she retakes. Right now I don’t even think shed get into Cornell, which is the easiest top 14 to get into.
Practice tests are not the equivalent of the real sitting. Save yourself $2,600 for tutoring or the precious time you’ll give up retaking it. Schools average the scores anyway and don’t super score, like the SAT. There is also the probability she’ll do worse the second time around.
It’s possible, but not probable, that she’d do worse on a retake: http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/data-%28lsac-resources%29-docs/repeaterdata.pdf The document shows that, of 286 people who scored an initial 165 in 2012-2013, 179 raised their scores, 64 of them into the 170-180 category. 36 had no change, and 71(around 25 percent?) scored lower.
Interesting doc - it also shows that 3 people with 179s actually retook. Hm. 1 went down, 1 scored the same, and 1 went up.
OP, I’d run some of these options past your D and see what she says. Ultimately it is her choice. And she has plenty of money.
I think she sounds very mature and sensible, aiming for smaller, local jobs, and working now to get a true taste of law. I am an old fossil, the market has changed, but the folks I went to school with back in the day who were happiest practicing, the ones who are still practicing, followed a path like hers. They didn’t want Big Law jobs, they didn’t want Big Bucks, they just wanted to be lawyers and they started working as early as possible in law related jobs. When they graduated, they knew how to do things, real lawyering things, like draft pleadings and motions.
Although law schools averaged all LSAT results at one time, many schools no longer do. Harvard Law, for instance, says:
Yale does its own thing:
Columbia considers all scores, but doesn’t say it averages them:
Chicago says:
So I would say that the top schools no longer average LSATs, although several do consider all results.
Exactly. It is in their best interest to review the highest score (even if they claim to “consider” all scores). If they need that 17x to hold their median, they won’t care if it was prefaced by two 16x’s.