<p>I’m looking for safeties/backups, just in case I’m not accepted at my first choice, Marlboro College.</p>
<p>So far, Bard looks to fit the bill as a good safety, for me…just that the academic experience at this school doesn’t really seem to be on par with Marlboro’s…or, say, Reed’s. For those of you whom aren’t familiar with Marlboro’s rigorous academics, think Reed’s, but much more individually demanding and taxing.</p>
<p>Would any of you have any input on this? </p>
<p>Sure, maybe I might not be doing a masters level thesis by senior year, like I would be at Marlboro…but; Bard still has a great mathematics department (very good scholars/professors there); great dept. of economics (I’m lovin’ the post-Keynesian slant and the fact that Pavlina Tcherneva is there); the opportunity for me to develop into an good writer is there; and, from what I’ve heard, the “socially fun” aspect of the college experience will definitely be more present here than at Marlboro. </p>
<p>The fact that there aren’t too many math majors, at Bard, means that I’ll have the, potential, opportunity to have a lot of time with the profs, there. Bard’s ties with Columbia also seem more well developed than Marlboro’s…</p>
<p>But, I’m afraid that math at Bard could be just lecture after lecture after lecture, which is something I want to avoid. I, TOTALLY, prefer tutorials, 5-7 people seminars, and Reed-style lecture conferences.</p>
<p>Since you love math - here are some numbers for you:
Academic Facts
2012–13 academic year: 1,225 classes
Tutorials: 12%
Class size:
2–10 students: 23%
10–20 students: 43%
20–25 students: 19%
30+ students: 3%</p>
<p>I don’t think “lecture after lecture after lecture” is the way most students describe classes at Bard.</p>
<pre><code> So, more than 60% of classes at Bard are, at most, 20 peeps per class. And, I assume this would be much less in the upper division mathematics classes, hmmm. Not much to fear, after all. I also do wonder how many of those tutorials were in maths… o.O
</code></pre>
<p>I am surprised to see that you would regard Bard as a safety to Marlboro, rather than Marlboro being the safety. Marlboro accepts 75 to 87 percent while Bard takes about a third. Also, the average SAT scores are far below those if Bard, which leads me to doubt that Marlboro is in the same league as Bard or Reed. Where’s your data?</p>
<p>My daughter was also interested in Reed, Marlboro and Bard…but after a visit to Marlboro it seemed a very different place than described. I think there are some smart kids there doing some real thinking but it is TINY and a lot of those senior year projects were about ganga and LOTR (my husband and I checked." Bard, where my daughter ended up, is a very serious place intellectually and academically. My daughter is doing more reading for her classes there (all small seminars always) than friends who are at Ivies. Again, it’s a matter of fit. Bard is much more like a regular LAC, much more like Reed, and, yes, statistically more competitive than Marlboro…but if you are really into the backwoods Marlboro could be for you. It’s gorgeous country. But please visit. We experienced it as very different than all of the glowing descriptions when we did. It was small and tired and flakey.</p>
<p>Now, all of these three schools, Marlboro, Reed, and Bard, are very different in their own right, truly. Now, is Marlboro “in the same league” as Bard or Reed? Depends on what you mean by that, really. It’s partially ambiguous, that statement: “in the same league.”</p>
<p>Marlboro is, certainly, no where as prestigious as Reed or Bard, never mind well known. I mean; lol; even Reed isn’t that very well known outside of the academic community, though being an excellent school. Bard? Well, I’m not all that familiar with this school. I just know the tid bits I’ve heard from several alumni whom I’m acquainted with…and some other things about it, here and there.</p>
<p>Now, are academics at Marlboro on par with Reed and/or Bard? Quite certainly. But, I’d say that they’re more ralatable to Reed. The academic experience at Marlboro is certainly as rigorous as Reed’s. Not to mention of the, similar, existence of the senior thesis year. Something that’s better about the thesis experience at Marlboro, though, is that an academic, from outside of the college (usually from the Ivies/MIT/Top LACs), also comes in and sits in on the college senior’s thesis defense, oral examination, etc.; evaluating with two other academics from the college. And, oddly enough, even though it may not be “in the same league as Bard or Reed,” the outside academic, also evaluating the senior thesis, always comments, very, favorably…in juxtaposition to the other two Marlboro academics whom are far more critical. </p>
<p>On a very ironic side note, it’s very common for the “outside evaluating academic” to comment on how much more profound and sheer quality Marlboro College’s undergraduate thesis projects are in comparison to the graduate work he or she is seeing in their graduate students, at their corresponding institution (Ivy/MIT/Top LACs). </p>
<p>Also, Marlboro grads get into either local or really great graduate schools, consistently. </p>
<p>Continuing on…</p>
<p>Of course, another significant difference about an academic curriculum at Marlboro is that, unlike Bard and Reed, students have the freedom to choose which classes they want to take. There are not any distribution requirements. There is not a required “liberal arts core.”, or "HUM 110, or “L&T Program”. It’s, what I think is, called an “open curriculum.” Please do correct me if I’m wrong, though. Obviously, this is a horrible idea for the vast majority of college students. Yet, there is one, I guess, “lower division” requirement: the Clear Writing program. It requires that one turn in a 20-page portfolio, towards the end of freshmen year, to see if the kid-os’ writing caliber are where it needs to be before they get into more serious study. And, it if turns out the level of writing isn’t there, the chance of getting kicked out of the college is very high. I believe the kid-os are, sometimes, given a second chance…</p>
<p>Now, this, the Clear Writing requirement, does appeal to me because it does show that the college takes the development of students’ writing and critical thinking very seriously. And, from already being in contact with several academics whom have evaluated thesis projects, from Marlboro College seniors, and are also very deeply familiar with the school; for example, Dr. Edward Stabler; it’s not an easy place to just pop in and pop out with a bachelors degree. The academics, here, are quite solemn. So, definitely, “in the same league as…Reed,” at least. I couldn’t really comment on how this compares with Bard since I’m not very familiar with Bard, in that way.</p>
<p>I guess it should also be important to note that once one is a Junior, all courses taken are tutorials, with profs.</p>
<p>Why do I have this school as my first choice, rather than Reed, Swarthmore’s Honors Program, St. Anselm College, or HTC at OU <a href=“some%20of%20the%20most,%20if%20not%20the%20most,%20academically%20intense%20liberal%20arts%20colleges%20in%20the%20country”>lol; or Bard</a>? Because I think that the academic experience at Marlboro could be the most challenging…in addition to many other reasons, of course. And, this might might sound very morbid, but Reed’s suicide rate has gone way down, which says something. They’ve also been working on reducing the attrition rate…very questionable. Of course, these aren’t the only reasons I dislike Reed, there are many other things. I don’t like how uberstructured the curriculum for math majors is…not much wiggle room. The classes offered there also seem very limiting towards my interests. I’d have to wait for senior thesis year to really engage my interests. Nopenopenopenopenope. It’s still a great school, though, just not for me! I don’t like it that at Swarthmore, only students in the honors program really get the kick in the butt challenge, tutorials, and a senior thesis year; it should be offered to all students. I’m not comfortable with St. A’s social environment, Catholic environment, and political slant. The grade deflation factor at St. A’s doesn’t seem to be as respected in academia, as Reed’s is, another “nopenopenopenopenopenope.” And, the HTC is great and all, but it just doesn’t have a farm! LOL. xD Of course, there are other reasons. </p>
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<p>It’s in the counseling office at my high school, of course! JK; I have a 3.9 and a 34 on my ACT. I haven’t taken the SAT. It’s not very popular here, in Colorado.</p>
<p>atidrep, thank you, so much, for your response! </p>
<p>Haha, I’ve already check out Marlboro, and I actually seemed very comfortable there. And, yes, it, in fact, is very tiny. No doubt about that. But, if you really want to see tiny, I recommend taking a look at Shimer College. Barely a 100 students; LOL.</p>
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<p>I totally believe you, there.</p>
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LOL…Pardon me…but you pressed the button, haha: How much is “a lot?” Haha, and I’d love to know more about this! Anyhoozledoozle, the senior projects going on this year don’t seem to be too concentrated in like things as Ganga or the LOTR. </p>
<p>One of the most impressive human beings I have ever met went to Marlboro. And I think if you are a reader and a thinker, you will find what you need there. Honestly, I think Bard, Reed, Marlboro are doing more to preserve true liberal arts education than a lot of these banker-lawyer-prep school teacher generating schools. You originally asked about “safeties” for Marlboro, however, and statistically it is harder to get into Reed and Bard. Schools that also offer an alternative intellectual scene that might be easier to get into include St. Johns and Green Mountain College. Check them out…and if you go to Marlboro do great things. You will be in one of the most beautiful places in the whole world.</p>
<p>I’d also recommend for you to take a look at the New College of Florida. New College, like Marlboro; Bard; and Reed, is definitely doing its part in preserving a true liberal arts education. And, like those three, it provides one with a challenging academic experience. Like Marlboro and Reed, students there also do the whole senior thesis year thing.</p>
<p>It’s a really unique, special, and definitely intellectual school. Take a look at it, yo.</p>
<p>Buuuuuuuut…this is way too much talk about other schools…let’s all go back to talking about the academic experience at Bard and how rigorous it is, y’all.</p>
<p>My daughter is currently at Bard. It is VERY rigorous and intense. She has hundreds and hundreds of pages of reading every day and lots of papers. It seems much more serious and intellectual than my own experience at Williams 30 years ago. L&T was also terrific. It truly taught the kids how to do academic writing (my daughter was an award-winning writer before she went and she got a lot out of it) and it provided a kind of introductory carnivale for freshman before their “real” classes begin. Not only does every kid write a thesis, but they have to moderate into their chosen majors–do a significant piece of writing and meet with a committee to be approved into the major. It’s serious. I’ve been impressed with her friends, too. They are smart kids too.</p>
Heads’ up from a clear writer, “very unique” is an illogical statement. (So don’t use it in your admissions essay.) I was also surprised to see Bard described as less competitive than Marlboro. I hear what you are saying about non-honors majors at Swarthmore not being able to do a thesis. My oldest went to Swarthmore, which is a rigorous, intense school. But she decided against honors in favor of double-majoring and being able to take more courses. She would very much liked to have had the opportunity to do a thesis.</p>
<p>Anyway, this discussion is interesting, but a bit of a moot point. I doubt you will need a safety for Marlboro, but if you think you will, Paramore and atidrep have made some great suggestions.</p>
Yes! I didn’t think that someone would catch that. Something either is or isn’t unique; there can’t be any degree of relativity in something that is, truly, one of a kind. It’s either one of a kind or it isn’t. And, by the way, thank you for correcting me, too. I like being corrected/criticized/making mistakes/learning from them…start process all over again. </p>
<p>But, to begin with, I wasn’t really aiming at writing in the clearest, most concise, and thoughtful manner, here. After all, this is an internet forum on CC…not the Clear Writing requirement at Marlboro. :P</p>
<p>
It’s certainly more competitive to be accepted into Bard than Marlboro, for sure. However, graduating from Marlboro is much more challenging.</p>
<p>
Yupp. That’s why I have a lot of respect for schools like the New College of Florida, Reed College and Shimer College [of course Marlboro, too!] because the senior thesis year is a graduation requirement, for everyone. And, I like that. </p>
<p>It’s interesting you see…I wish there was a right wing version of Reed College. The closest one that I’ve found to this is [Hillsdale</a> College](<a href=“404 Not Found - Hillsdale College”>http://www.hillsdale.edu/). It’s just that, the reason it can’t be really recognized as the “right wing version of Reed” is because the academic experience there is kindergarten, compared to Reed. So, I guess the spot’s still open. I do hope that Hillsdale does something to go toward emulating Reed academically and Reed’s academic achievements, that would be really cool. This would open the possibility for a people with a more conservative outlook on life to go to a school just as academically challenging as Reed, yet also with the conservative atmosphere where they would feel comfortable in. </p>
<p>I just feel badly for them, you see. Sure, they’re brilliant individuals in their own way…then they find out that some of the most rigorously taxing LACs in the country are either left wing or, generally , leaning towards the left: New College of Florida, Reed College, Marlboro College, and Swarthmore College. And, yes, I know, there are several people at Swarthmore who lean right. But, the political atmosphere there is still generally very center/moderate, to an extent partially left leaning. I guess these conservative teens could feel comfortable at Swarthmore, yet its atmosphere still not really being that true conservative atmosphere. </p>
<p>But, I will mention that this is one thing that I really like about Swarthmore, how its political atmosphere is very moderate. It’s nice to have that as a sort of balance to all of these left wing colleges that are very academically rigorous, and require a senior thesis year.</p>
<p>BUT…OMG… come on Swarthmore! Open up this senior thesis year thing to everyone, already! Gosh. Haha</p>
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<p>Y’know…I didn’t come in thinking that there would some type of resistance to the idea of me having Bard as a back up to Marlboro. In a way, I guess, I naively thought this would sort of be common place with all the facts out there about Marlboro. But, it seems that the common idea of what should be one’s “1st choice” should always be the most prestigious, “reach,” school that one has some sort of possibility to get into…this just wasn’t something that I was on board with. </p>
<p>I’ll be candid. I just really want to experience the most academically challenging experience in the country. I also want to engage in farming. Lastly, I’ve been chained up in suburbia for ages. Ever since I was 8 years old, I’ve been forced to stay at home and babysit my siblings. </p>
<p>Having lived in CO all of my life, I have yet to have ever done anything “fun” in the mountains. I have never gone camping. I have never gone hiking, up there. I could go on listing many other activities that I haven’t had the opportunity to do…but I just wont feel all that well after doing so. Therefore, I’m not going to.</p>
<p>I just really want to get involved in outdoor activities…and Marlboro’s outdoor program is one of the best in the country, and that’s part of the reason I want to go here…y’know…and thankfully there’s a very challenging academic experience here, and the <3 senior thesis year. <3 Plus, there’s a farm there, too; Yeah! And, like Reed/New College/Swarthmore/Shimer, there’s a strong intellectual community among; not only the student body but, just ;everyone there, including the janitors. Haha, that’s one of the reasons I really like Marlboro, too. :3 Even the lunch ladies are also constantly learning…it’s not just the students and the professors/tutors.</p>
<p>It might also be important to mention that I’d like the opportunity to go to a college where it will have a profound difference on my life…and Marlboro’s rumored to have that, haha. Y’know…according to Loren Pope’s book.</p>
<p>I’d also consider Deep Springs College…but I really don’t like the weather of that region’s climate. It’s too dry and hot. >.< :p</p>
I don’t see Swarthmore as being politically moderate campus…!</p>
<p>
Actually I think people were taking your question at face value. You don’t really need a backup if Marlboro is your first choice. (By the way, I have friends who went there and send their kids there–I have heard wonderful things about the school. I hope you enjoy it!</p>
I also do wonder how many of those tutorials were in maths… o.O
- 78% of classes at Bard are 20 or fewer students.</p>
JK; I have a 3.9 and a 34 on my ACT. I haven’t taken the SAT. It’s not very popular here, in Colorado.</p>
Something either is or isn’t unique; there can’t be any degree of relativity in something that is, truly, one of a kind. It’s either one of a kind or it isn’t. And, by the way, thank you for correcting me, too. 
Haha</p>