How can she convince her parents?

Parents Forum
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<p>cpt, I get where you are coming from. My husband and I married young. I remember one day we didn't have much money to even go to the grocery store, but I had to do the laundry and found a five dollar bill in a jeans pocket. It meant we could eat. For years (pre-cell phone days) we had old cars that would break down and my husband had to do all the repairs because we couldn't afford a mechanic. I helped my husband put the roof on part of an old farm house we lived in, etc. etc. We made it through those tough times at an age where our peers were living in dorms without a care except grades. And then my husband went back to college full time and I supported both of us. We lived in a trailer one year and a shabby apartment another. Those experiences might have been ones I don't want my kids to have but they were acceptable risks to me.</p>

<p>Living less then two miles from the college and having to deal with real life problems is an adult decision. Just because it's not the smooth easy path doesn't mean it shouldn't be the one chosen. I hope the parents of the op and her friends know their daughters well enough to come to an agreement that everyone is comfortable with.</p>

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<p>So basically, the OP and friend have to convince the parents, that this is not going to end up being a problem to the parents. If the parents don't like the odds, it's their call not to support it. Why put your money down on something that smells like it's going to develop into a problem that you don't want to have to face, when there are safer alternatives? That's really what it comes down to.</p>

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<p>and as I said, maybe the parents have some history with their child, so....</p>

<p>or they can just be the worrying kind</p>

<p>or they are prudent</p>

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<p>Okay, then we're all agreed! If these are responsible kids, reasonable parents then all should be satisified. Hey, herecomesthesun, can you get your friends parents to post here so we can talk to them??</p>

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<p>"Living less then two miles from the college and having to deal with real life problems is an adult decision. Just because it's not the smooth easy path doesn't mean it shouldn't be the one chosen."</p>

<p>The parents' perspective, however, may be that since the parents presumably are still supporting their kids, and would be financially responsible for any problems that result, the parents may choose what appears to be the smooth, easy path. After all, if the kids run into financial problems because of roommate irrresponsibility or if the kids find out that they really do need cars, then the parents would be stuck with the bills, which isn't the case with couples who are married and living on their own.</p>

<p>The OP's parents might be very willing to have their daughters learn about real life problems if the problems were guaranteed to be only their daughters', not their parents. </p>

<p>Finding ways to reassure the parents about these concerns would be important for the OP and her friends to do.</p>

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<p>I don't why there would any "history" in S's life to keep her from living off-campus. I have been S's roommate for four months and also her friend and she is a mature, responsible and consciencious person with no emotional problems or anything like that.</p>

<p>I honestly don't understand how a dorm could be the "smooth and easy path". It provides us with better amenities, our own bedrooms and bathrooms, more quiet space to study than the dorm and more personal freedom for half the price of a dorm, with better security to boot. There is an hourly shuttle to campus and two roommates with cars so there really isn't a problem with getting around. Its frustrating to me because I don't understand, and I will admit it makes me kind of mad that her parents are holding us back in this situation. But ultimately, if their daughter can't convince them, then that is that. I wish there was just a way to get through their heads that living off campus is better than the dorms!</p>

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<p>"I honestly don't understand how a dorm could be the "smooth and easy path". </p>

<p>Because if one of your rooommates doesn't pay their rent or messes up their apartment, your parents wouldn't have to pay the costs, which can be what happens when roommates don't keep up their part of the rent or the maintenance.</p>

<p>If there's an emergency, it's much easier to get a college to check up on students than to get a landlord to do that.</p>

<p>"I have been S's roommate for four months and also her friend and she is a mature, responsible and consciencious person with no emotional problems or anything like that."</p>

<p>I have had friends whom I knew for far longer, and found out later that they experienced bouts of severe mental illness or had had a history of other kinds of problems. </p>

<p>None of us know your roommate or your exact situation. However, we can have empathy for the parents who are more cautious about allowing students to move off campus than to remain in campus housing.</p>

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<p>I am with NSM all the way. These are the risks the parents have to weigh. Some parents, like yours, are willing to take those risks. Some of us really do not want to deal with the additional problems going off campus entails, and the parental worries that come with a student taking a place that is not close to the campus. THere will come a time when all of this will happen, but these are really the last few years when we parents can take advantage of a dorm situation for the most part. It's nice to get that breather. My friends who just situated their daughter and her friend in an apartment in Manhattan are now faced with a reneging roommate situation. Yes, they can legally pursue her, but she has a lot of trouble right now, and it's going to be one major pain in the neck with no sure consequence. There have been some other headaches too. The parents wish to high heaven, that their daughter could have stayed in a dorm apartment situation as she was in at NYU before graduating. But at least they had 4 years of that luxury. I did not view dorms as a luxury in my day either. It's taken 35 years of hindsight and experience to develop my opinion. Young people are so optimistic about these things (as they should be), but some of us adults are more aware of the pitfalls and just don't want to have that risk of experiencing them.</p>

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<p>My D is currently applying to colleges, she got into two so far</p>

<p>A HUGE factor for me as a parent is guaranteed housing for all four years, whether D avails herself to them or not...</p>

<p>At one school the school owns apartments for upperclassman, which to me is the best of both worlds, housing near school, ie walking distance, controlled by the school, so there is some accountability- ever had a bad landlord, or horrid neighbors, or no heat? </p>

<p>I am one for students having independence, freedom, and choice, BUT parents do have a say when it is $$...if S could pay for it all herself, then she would have to convince no one</p>

<p>and I am going to give you some advice, when parents come, do not come across as mad at them, that will do you no good, you need to come off as rational, thoughtful, openminded, and willing to listen</p>

<p>"holding you back" is not the mature attitude you will need if you have a prayer of getting the parents to be open to the idea</p>

<p>I understand the desire to get your own place, but you need to approach it as young adults, not as teens who are mad at someones mom</p>

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<p>herecomesthesun, Another piece to the puzzle you might not know are the experiences of your friends parents. Perhaps when they were in college they had the bad roommates, bad landlords, broken down cars, etc. Maybe someone they know had a student with a bad off-campus housing experience. Putting yourself in their shoes and figuring out what you would do in case something went wrong would go a long way to ease their minds.</p>

<p>Is there any chance your friend could afford to buy herself a car over the summer? When you sign the contract will all three of you sign it so that no one can back out? Can you get back into student housing the following year if you choose to? Figure out all the expenses: electric, cable, telephone, internet access, etc. and show the real costs. Perhaps your friend can offer to pay something towards the housing to show her parents that she is serious about it.</p>

<p>When my husband and I have a big decision to make that's going to cost us alot of money or time we always try to research it throughly to figure out if it will work or not. That's what you need to do with this.</p>

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<p>I should add: For most parents, the current dorms that students regard as horrible are the type of dorm situations that were considered the best living situations when parents themselves were in college -- and were either living at home or were in dorms. Back when many parents were in college, relatively few students lived on their own while attending college. They certainly didn't live in luxury dorms with dishwashers, exercise rooms, cable, Internet, swimming pools, etc. Parents didn't even have those kind of accommodations when they went into the work world and were paying their own way.</p>

<p>Indeed, it often was considered a luxury for students to be staying in any kind of dorm -- even very basic ones, since it would be cheaper for them to live at home and commute.</p>

<p>Consequently, parents aren't likely to have a lot of empathy for students who feel that college dorms are substandard and consequently, they should move off campus. Even though the cost may appear to be cheaper off campus, parents are going to have concern about security, accountability, finances and other potential problem areas that students often don't pay that much attention to until they, themselves, are fully responsible for themselves financially and otherwise.</p>

<p>"Is there any chance your friend could afford to buy herself a car over the summer?"</p>

<p>This sounds like a good idea. If your friend works a fulltime and part time job, she probably could buy a car. She also could work parttime during the school year to pay for insurance.</p>

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<p>My experience:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I loved my dorm experience in college, and stayed there all four years. Never thought about doing anything else. But my wife (same college) hated the dorm and moved off campus in the middle of her sophmore year. The quality of her college experience didn't suffer at all. My daughter didn't love dorm life, either, and is much happier living off campus (and still very, very involved in on-campus life).</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, there are hidden costs in moving off campus. But, at least for us, it has still been about 30% less expensive. There are other risks, too, like not having someone come and move your roommate out if he goes nuts, and having to cover his share of the rent until you can find a replacement if he's so nuts that he has to go home. But that just doesn't happen all that much, and increasing your housing cost by almost 50% is an awfully big premium to insure against that risk.</p></li>
<li><p>As for security against crime, of course that's a factor. But many of you sound very overprotective to me. By and large, I don't think it's hard for 20 year-olds to learn how to be safe in the community they're in.</p></li>
<li><p>My daughter lives 1-1/2 miles from the main campus area. She doesn't have a car. One of her housemates does, which is great for things like going to Target, but they certainly don't use it for going to and from campus. They walk, bike, or take a shuttle bus that stops a few blocks away. Mainly walk. The notion that a kid would need a car to live 1-1/2 miles from campus is positively horrifying.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>I don't know if this applies to OP's situation or not, but in several college towns that I know many apartment complexes rent by the bedroom. Each student signs their own lease and is only responsible for that. If one student breaks lease, the management company goes after that person and roommates have no issue to deal with.</p>

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<p>Clearly there is a range of dorm experiences, facilities, and school culture about living in the dorms. This choice is also colored by the student's maturity, the parents' comfort zone with their child's independence, and cost.</p>

<p>My S had a mediocre dorm experience that was quite expensive. For about 40% of the cost, he has been living in a co-op since his sophomore year. It has been an excellent living situation There are about 50 people in his co-op, providing some of the social environment of a dorm or fraternity. The house is self-managed, with some oversight by the co-op system. Its not for everyone, but the co-op is a great alternative.</p>

<p>herecomesthesun, please do keep us posted. It looks like you are trying to have an open mind to the two different apartment locations and are making an effort to anticipate the parents' concerns and address them.</p>

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<p>Cars are expensive. You have a car, you need to maintain it both in paperwork and mechanically. You need insurance. If you buy new, you're likeley to have car payments, and the insurance is higher. If you buy used, you may have reliability issues unless your family knows what they are doing with cars. You also have the added risk of a kid with a car at college. That means concerns about drinking and driving, having other people in the car, all sorts of other things. It's hard to say no when asked for driving favors, even if it's not wise to to do the favor</p>

<p>In my opinion, it all comes down to what sort of risks the parents are willing to take. Which comes down to what kind of kid you have. Many of these things are added distractions, admittedly the type that we all end up having to incorporate in our lives eventually. It's just that college can be a honeymoon period where kids don't have to worry about multiple bills, transportation, cleaning house, maintenance, furniture and housewares, cooking, coordinateing among apt mates for all of thee things. You can just focus on your classes and fun with all that is offered at colleges these days. I guess some kids don't like this and prefer to take on the added responsibility. But it is the parents' call if they are on the hook for the expenses and potential trouble to make the decision whether they want to sign on for the risks attached to this move. </p>

<p>A mile and half, two miles, two and half miles is not a big issue at all, depending on what is being tranversed. In Manhattan, it's nothing with all the transportation options and walking sidewalk all the way. In some places, you can lose your life in less than that distance because of the neighborhoods in between or the nonroad conditions. I live about that far from a train station, but it is treacherous walking. My sister in law is a seasoned mountain trekker and in excellent condition. She nearly got wiped out making that walk, and returned shaken with my niece whom she had in a jogging stroller. Also the distance for college students is often done at night. And if you need to run home for something, quickly, it is not doable between classes at that distance. Shuttle buses if used heavily and run regularly are fine, but if it is public transportation, it can be dicey. Having depended on public transportation for many years (I was 28 before getting a driver's license), I can tell you that I passed many an hour waiting for a bus that did not come. I even resorted to hitch hiking which is a truly dangerous thing to do, when I got stuck. And I was not the only one. </p>

<p>As for issues with the aptmates and landlord, it happens alot. My friend is legal counsel for a university, and she says that is a major headache. And if the parents don't get involved (truly a major headache), the chances for a good outcome are poor. Usually, there is no resolution even with contracts and agreements up the wazoo. I know two great kids right now, who are stuck with an expensive apartment because their roomates took off. One is pursuing the roommate, the other is not. In the meantime, the parents of both kids are paying the full expenses. There is also the issue of things that disappeared, things they broke in the apt, etc, nothing but a headache. Yeah, the parents can throw up their hands, and say, "your problem", but that is not easy to do when you are on the spot. I have been dragged unwillingly to battle a number of times, because the consequences were just too dire, and my participation could make the difference. And I HATE even hearing my kids are involved in such nonsense. It causes me enormous stress. </p>

<p>And if something happens during a walk from campus to home--if it done regularly, you can bet that the kid will do something unwise on occaission, like walk alone at night, take a ride from a stranger, 100X the money you save, all the delight of the kid in getting your support for the place, is not going to be worth it. I've seen some of those cases too.</p>

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<p>Do your parents have to sign on to the lease? If so, this can be a huge issue. We actually ended up paying rent for one term, even though D was not there, for several reasons-some of which involved the roommate and their rejection of any replacements. Had we tried to play hardball and force them to take any replacement and not paid rent, it would have hit our parental credit rating and the roommate knew that. If it had been all the girls in the apartment on their own, we would have had options that would have affected our D, but not us. Your roommates parents may have concerned like this.</p>

<p>Do not enter any roommate situation thinking all will go well, even with best friends, talk up front about all the things which could go wrong and how you would tackle them.</p>