How can she convince her parents?

Parents Forum
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<p>You guys are really great, and I could definitely use your help in this delimma.</p>

<p>At my college, most sophomores live off campus second semester. The on campus housing at Mizzou is crappy, with tiny rooms that are falling apart, and really overpriced. Comparatively, there are some really nice yet affordable apartments in the area.</p>

<p>Two friends of mine and I want to live in a three bedroom. One is a friend from childhood - I know, I know, but trust me on this one. We lived apart this year on purpose because of what everyone says, and our friendship has just grown stronger this past year. We know how to give each other space and we communicate better than any other best friends I know. The second girl is my current roommate, who I became close friends with. We live together wonderfully and I would seriously be able to share a fox hole with her comfortably, we get along that well. </p>

<p>The problem is that the second girl's parents (I will call her S) are not sold on the idea of getting an apartment. According to S, they don't believe her when she tells them that most sophomores live off campus. They won't give her a specific reason, though I suspect its because they believe she will be safer and more supervised in a dorm. Of course, our dorms are not any safer than an apartment complex, and the RAs are a joke. My parents are all for me living off campus because it will save them a lot of money and they think it will help me learn to be independent. But S's parents are just having a hard time.</p>

<p>They told her that they would consider letting her live someplace within walking distance because she will not have a car. The problem is, all the apartments close to campus are old and run-down. They don't make me feel safe. We have an appointment to look at a place but I have heard its really decrepit. However, there are some really nice places a couple miles off campus, but her parents will not let her consider them. Since they are paying her rent, S is kind of stuck, and so are we.</p>

<p>My other friend and I don't know what to do because we really want her to live with us. I feel safer if its more than just two girls, and you get a better apartment and cheaper rent if its 3-bedroom, but we don't know of anyone else to ask to live with us. Besides, we really want her to be our roommate! But we do have an appointment at an farther away place (it has hourly shuttles to campus) and I don't know what to do if it really works out and S's parents aren't for it.</p>

<p>This is where you come in - if you were her parents, how could she convince you? I know that parents aren't into begging and pleading and she hasn't done that. But this is a situation where she doesn't want to just give up. How can she approach it? Should I have my parents call her parents or would that bother you? Please, any and all insight is greatly appreciated.</p>

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<p>She could invite her parents to visit her, meet her roommates and look at potential apartments as well as dorm accomodations.</p>

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<p>I second Northstarmom's suggestion. The best way to get parents on board is to get them actively involved. My sister lived off campus at Mizzou after frosh year, too, and my dad went down the first year to help her pick something out.</p>

<p>Off campus housing is so cheap there! My sis had a 2BR townhouse with a yard for $650. The concern about transportation, though, is rather legit. If you can solve that problem, I suspect parents will hop on board.</p>

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<p>IMO, don't have other parents call. I'm not likely to be convinced about something pertaining to the future and safety of my daughter by talking to complete strangers.</p>

<p>I, personally, would be impressed with a typewritten statement of: the proposal, its advantages, and how it addresses any concerns that I may have. After that, I'd also like to visit, to see for myself.</p>

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<p>You might want to try to figure out which parent has the deepest objections. For example, if it is the Dad in this case, perhaps a tour of prospective apartments (and roommates) that involved him would be effective. On the other hand, if he is not willing, getting the Mom involved might cause him to relent if the Mom is convinced...but you need to find out which parent has an objection and what it really is in order to address it.</p>

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<p>If you three want to live a couple of miles off campus, how will you all get back and forth without a car?</p>

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<p>It would be tough to convince me. My son wanted to do pretty much the same thing. The house he wanted to join was a mile and a half easy walk to a university shuttle bus that would take him to the main campus which was about 3 miles away. There was and is no way that a car is going to be in the picture for him. There were 5 other guys, all nice, great kids. I liked them all. And they were excited and committed to this project, willing to commit to providing the transportation for those who did not have cars. It looked like a wonderful thing to do, and I did feel badly nixing my son's participation. He had made it difficult by not snagging a room when he should have to force the issue as well, so all I could get him was a quad room, not something I was happy about, but it was on campus in a dorm complex that had everything. Easy walking to the classroom areas, but a regular shuttle that serviced the complex in a sheltered, tunnel like area so there was no reason to even have to go outside to catch the bus. Well, he worked out an arrangement with the guys to stay there on a "partial" basis, and he paid for this out of his own pocket. I did give him some extra money, because the quad was cheaper than the double I would paid for. Heck I would have gone higher for one of the university apartments right nearby. But this....well, it did not look good to me.</p>

<p>Buffalo got hit by a major snow storm in October that literally froze a city used to heavy snow. The kids in that house really had to suck it down. They had no easy way to get to school as that easy walk to the shuttle was truly ornerouos in cold, nasty weather. The shuttles, if they ran during that time, were slow and not on schedule. The power went off in that house for a week. My son holed up in his dorm room, and the rest of the kids in the house fell apart. Since he was preparing for a major theatre production, he had late hours, and often had problems with getting a ride to the house. The last shuttle sometimes did not cut it, and having to make it became an issue. Things like the powerful wireless connection, the perpetually open eateries, the fact that the school buildings are pretty much linked so you can avoid going outside, suddenly became important. If you live on campus, you do not even need winter garb if you just chose not to go out. </p>

<p>I went to a school where just about everyone moved off campus after freshman year. At the time, I thought it was great. In retrospect, it was not so great, and the school since then has added enough housing to keep more kids on campus. There is a loss of community, comradery when you move out into an apartment, and more responsibilites. The kind you are going to have to take on eventually anyways. While you don't have to worry about these things, enjoy! So much can go wrong, and often does. One of my apt mates, a very responsible, wonderful person, had a breakdown of sorts as she was suffering from mood disorders that came on strong after we took the apt. She was the one who was doing most of the bills, and they did not get paid. She took a leave without warning without taking care of anything, leaving us with a mess and debts that had to be immediately paid. THe problems had to be solved while we were entering exam time in a rigorous school. Things like that were not uncommon at all. </p>

<p>Transportation can be a major issue, so I can see why the parents are concerned. THough you three are now the Musketeers in friendship, things change. Interests change, schedules change. If she is not going to have a car, that can be a problem because many campus things go over the bus schedules. They just do. I was at a school that had and has a top of the line system between campuses, and I still would not recommend an undergrad to be dependent on it. My son's school is the same way. Undergrad have so much going on at the main campus, that it is too easy to get stuck if you have to be there often and at odd times. It is often so useful to be able to run to the dorm room and pick up something. With bad timing, even a regular shuttle can end up costing over an hour to go back and forth from campus to room.<br>
I also do not believe that apartments are safer than dorms. When you look at the crime rates, excluding petty incidents, it just is not true. Yeah, your toothbrush would be safer in an apartment over a communal bathroom, but the confrontational crime and true crime--the type we parents fear, are higher. And you do not have that safety net. The RAs may well be a joke, but you are surrounded with people in the dorms, and if things go off, it can be more quickly noticed. We did not notice our apartment mate having a breakdown in front of our eyes, with our busy schedule. In a dorm, she would not have been able to hide as she did. You really isolate yourself in the apartment.</p>

<p>All said, there were kids who did very well off campus. Many lived in very nice apartments with great amenities and were ready for that transition. They had cars, they had money. But trying to scrape by in cheap student digs is a challenge, and does take time and consideration. I don't blame the parents for not wanting their daughter in that situation. Perhaps another year, when a better and longer track record is achieved at the school.</p>

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<p>Cpt:</p>

<p>Be fair.</p>

<p>(1) Buffalo has a snowstorm like that maybe once every 4-5 years. (It has never had a freak storm like that in October before.) That bad week will probably be the worst experience the city has during your son's college career. And it was a week of problems (probably more like 4-5 days), not a month of them. This is not a likely problem in Missouri.</p>

<p>(2) Also, UB is in the middle of nowhere. You can't live in a real place anywhere near it. I don't think Mizzou is comparable.</p>

<p>(3) Dorms have other real negatives, too. The least common denominator of maturity tends to be pretty low.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom: S's parents are bringing her back to campus this weekend and they will be going to look at the one apartment complex that is within walking distance. Maybe they will like it and we will like it and everything will be great, who knows. My concern is that is not supposed to be very nice. My other friend and I don't want to live in a crappy apartment when we could live somewhere much nicer for the same price, but her parents are acting like anything not within walking distance is completely out of the question.
ADad: I wouldn't say our parents are complete strangers. They have spent time together on two different occasions, when both of our families were in town visiting. I am going to offer S to have my parents call but I wouldn't force it on them. As far as a typewritten statement, I will suggest it to S. Because they are her parents, its kind of her deal.
LurkNessMonster: Both the other girl and I will have cars but S will not. The place we are really interested in but S's parents are not for is only 1.4 miles from campus and they have an hourly shuttle to the central part of campus.
cptofthehouse: Unfortunately, all three of us have had terrible experiences in the dorm. Like JHS said, there is a real lack of maturity. Its very loud and distracting and there is a lot of social drama all the time. Yes, it was an experience worth having, but I don't see the need to have it over again another year when for the most part it was negative. Besides, sophomores are largely excluded in the dorms because there are so few of them and the freshmen band together, so the comraderie aspect would be absent, I think.</p>

<p>Anymore suggestions are definitely welcome. I think the plan is for her parents to see this one place that is in walking distance and hopefully that will work out. If it doesn't work out - either her parents don't like it or we don't like it - then we will have to go from there and possibly find a different roommate, as sad as that is.</p>

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<p>if they are coming back to visit can they not be talked into taking a look at the apartment that you would like to get? Can you offer them a contract that says you would pick up your friend (with your car) if she stays on campus and has no transportation back to the apartment? (if you are willing to do that).</p>

<p>If the apartments really close don't make you feel safe, you should voice that concern when you are there. Ask the parents if they would feel safe there.</p>

<p>1.4 miles for a college kid is not that far. Obviously other issues come up if you don't think the walk is safe.</p>

<p>I'm sure there are stats available from the school that say how many kids live on campus. Find those.</p>

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<p>I think northstarmom's suggestion is best, getting her parents involved in the process. The hourly shuttle to campus is obviously a big plus and indicated that the complex has a significant number of other college students renting there.</p>

<p>It is likely that safety is a big concern so see if the complex has any incident statistics or if the local police department has any. this could be compared to campus area statistics that the university is required to publish.</p>

<p>The only other issue is one of participating in campus activities and living so far away. I assume you have all considered that and concluded that it is not an issue.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Aren't the new suite style dorms much nicer than the older ones? I believe they are also almost entirely upperclassmen in those. There may be a compromise solution to at least try these for a year before moving on to an apartment.</p>

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<p>You might also suggest that her parents talk to the housing office. If most sophomores live off campus, some statistics such as crime, safety, transportation, etc. would help. Then they can also be sure that sophomores do in fact live off campus and it's not just, "But, Mom, EVERYBODY's doing it!"</p>

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<p>Sounds a little primitive, but would a bike for the friend work? A mile and a half bike ride would be very easy unless the roads between the apartment and college are hairy. In many countries, that's the main mode of transportation.</p>

<p>I actually wish my daughter could do off campus housing. She was in an apartment last quarter for student teaching and loved making her own meals and having her own room. Her college does four years of dorms except for married students, study abroads and internships. She is chafing at the bit for graduation and ready to again make her own decisions not related to roommates.</p>

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<p>something to consider, you know the second girl for jsut a little while, you really have NO IDEA her history, she may be just fine, but maybe there were issues when she was growing up and her parents, who were with her for 18 years may not want to share the rest of their concerns</p>

<p>The second girl may have been a perfect child and the parents hae their own stuff going on, or she could have been a bit more "interesting" and the parents are worried about a less structure, in their eyes environment</p>

<p>So don't assume you know all, it could be as it seems, but maybe not</p>

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<p>
[quote]
But we do have an appointment at an farther away place (it has hourly shuttles to campus)

[/quote]

Firstly, her parents are within their rights and IMO are being prudent. </p>

<p>For me the above point on the shuttle would be one of the key points. If this is a campus shuttle conveniently servicing that area (i.e. very short and safe walk to shuttle), then I'd be open to it. If it was some other apartment without convenient access to the college, it'd be tough to convince me. </p>

<p>Since there's a shuttle, I assume that the area serviced is probably loaded with college students and that this is actually a 'normal' environment for the students at that campus.</p>

<p>It'd be helpful for the parents to go visit the apartment and area in question and make sure they're shown the shuttle route and times (usually available on the college's website). Maybe if they see that this is safe, convenient, and 'normal' (i.e. lots of other students in theis apartment complex and area), they'll go for it.</p>

<p>Having other parents contact me would do nothing for me - I'd have to be convinced myself.</p>

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<p>Snow storms and inclement weather are common in Buffalo and old houses that rent to students tend to be in bad shape. A mile and a half walk during cold rain, sleet, snow is going to be an issue at times, and a bike would not work when the weather is like that.</p>

<p>The weather at Mizzou is certainly not the same, and not an issue, but home maintenance is an issue everywhere. Something I feel can wait until the kids are older as it will be an issue for the rest of their lives along with the multiple bills that go with renting a non university place. I can list too many things that were headaches for the parent when kids rent off campus, and that's just right off the top of my head. Though there are dorm issues, too, the % seem to be lower and the resolution and involvement for the parents a lot lower too. Near every university there are landlords who are looking to make money off the students which is fine, but some take advantage of the quasi independent status of college kids, knowing that they are too inexperienced to be wise about things, and the parents are elsewhere and don't want to get involved. </p>

<p>It seems to me that the parents of your friend are being reasonable in that they are willing to go for an apartment. I don't think it is a small thing that the girl is not going to have a car, and will have to get rides with you or deal with that distance. It is not an occassional thing and can become a problem. Though you are all friends right now, things can change. Schedules can change. So much can happen, and she can be stuck in mud. I have seen the best of friends have to part, leaving one in a lurch. In an arrangement like the one you are proposing, all three parties should be as independent as possible of the other in their daily needs, including transportation. I am assuming the financial arrangement are made adequately.
JHS, there are a lot of off campus housing options around both UB campuses. The main campus has more expensive, upscale apartments and it would be a major inconvenience not to have a car there if you are not on the shuttle bus line. There are regular shuttles to South Campus from Main, and that area, University Heights is where a lot of cheap housing is available. The area is not the safest, but not the worst. If you can get something very close to the shuttle buses, you can be ok for transportation, but for my son who lived in the dorms on South Campus as a freshman, even those shuttles were a pain since he spends all of his time on Main, and with his performance and rehearsal schedule , the shuttle can become an issue there. And that is with his living right in front of a major shuttle stop, not having to walk any distance to get to it. THough a mile and a half is not a big distance, when you are talking night walking, often alone, and regularly, it can be a major pain. Basically it means making a commitment to leave with all you need in the morning and returning at night before the shuttles stop running. But then you are stuck in your house/apt, not on campus grounds, and it precludes popping out to see some friends, doing something that often happens on campus, going to the library, etc, etc. All of the things that make a campus college a great experience. I don't think it is a good idea. I am hoping my son gets into one of the campus apartments on the Main campus next year, which would be a nice change from the dorms, have the advantages of apt living, but still be close to the Main campus and facilities so using the campus amenities is convenient. I am loathe to say that you save money going off campus to rent even with low rent, when I have seen what the experience has cost a number of people I know. You tend to buy more stuff that you need for a real apartment, and need to keep buying for things that wear out llike lightbulbs, something many college apartments will provide for the student.</p>

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<p>My first two moved off campus after freshman year (though one was in a U. owned apartment). My youngest is planning to move off after his soph. year--first year it is allowed at his school.</p>

<p>Here are the reasons we have supported the moves:</p>

<p>-Cheaper--for instance Son#2 dorm is approx. 500/mo. plus his meal plan (food that he hates). Very nice apt. will be 400/mo for his half plus about 75/mo for utilities. That is for half of nice 2 BR instead of half of a 10x10 room with shared bath with hall.<br>
-Kids did much better with buying food and preparing what they wanted and actually ate much healthier than using meal plan
-More control over what is happening in your apt. than what is going on in a dorm (ie noise control)
-More privacy
-Don't have to meet move in and move out dates of the school
-Does start to teach some responsibility as far as paying a few bills</p>

<p>Negatives:
-Not as convenient for classes, but if they are willing to deal with it---feel like it's their choice.</p>

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<p>cpt, I didn't mean the bike as a main form of transportation, but there was talk of the car-less student walking, taking a shuttle or catching a ride with roommates. I was just adding a fourth option. </p>

<p>I think all of your reasons, cpt, to remain in a dorm make sense and for my son, I would also suggest staying on campus. However, for my daughter I would have been happy for her to move off campus starting soph. year if she had been able. Why? She is mature enough to make her own decisions and can handle obstacles well. She prefers to cook her own food and as a vegetarian the campus dining lacks alot. When she was on her own last quarter (45 minutes from campus) she was able to keep in touch with her college friends and often visited on weekends. One of her roommates did not have a car but student taught at the same school as my daughter so my daughter drove both of them into the city of St. Louis to their school every day. The 3 roommates did not know each other that well before they moved in but were able to work out everything. </p>

<p>I'm not saying it would be nearly as easy as living on campus but I think that this is not a black and white issue - it depends on the students and their personalities. </p>

<p>As far as convincing the one set of parents, I agree that them seeing the potential apartment (the close sketchy one and the farther away nice one) is essential. Also anticipating any transportion problems such as cptofthehouse mentioned and being able to list solutions and back up plans that would work would be helpful.</p>

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<p>Actually, if my kids were mature in most endeavors, good students, not in trouble, have shown responsibility for paperwork, finances and commitments, I might support their choice even if I felt there were disadvantages and risks. The main risk I would not take would be the danger factor. If you have a kid who are still way down there in terms of the beforementioned issues, you know that you are facing a good chance of some problems arising that you do not want to have. At least, I don't want those issues as I have already paid my dues in that area many, many times over. I spent many years sharing apartments and houses, and had to wrangle with all of the problems I bring up. I was a responsible young person, and was risk adverse, but in one setting, I was hitch hiking regularly, as the busline that took me to school became so unreliable that I would wait for long periods of time for a bus. I know well what can happen when things get tough in an inconvenient living arrangement. I also had roommates back out and disappear, leaving the rest of us to pay their debts when we could not easily afford it. We had apartment breakdowns and landlord problems. And they too often all occurred at a time when full attention was needed for school work. Just because you sign an agreement does not mean that you can easily collect on it, and life goes on, bills come due, for a long time before you can get your money, if you ever get it. The stress involved in these things can be enormous. I was independent as a college student so my parents did not get even a whiff of my problems, especially since my father was very ill those years, and they were struggling themselves. But many kids these days go straight to mama and papa when the going gets rough, and if they do not want to assume the risks that the whole deal is going to be a headache they don't want, they are fully within their rights to nix the deal.</p>