IMO any of the schools in the consortium have more classes than anyone could take but I get the specialized course thing.
I think kids do it for variety, maybe, or maybe to pursue one of the 5 college certificate programs. Anecdotally I hear kids like to take a class at UMass around lunchtime because they get a dining hall pass…sushi has been mentioned more than once
I guess we’re on a tangent, a bit. But it is interesting, I wonder what consortium students think about the workload and rigor of the other school courses?
@TheGFG one of the best she can do as a recruited athlete is an overnight, or at least spend a day with the runners to explore how they manage the demands of academics and 20+ hours of athletics. And ask pointed questions to the coach. We were able to get a sense (sometimes) of whether the coach respected the importance of academics. We sensed some teams were supportive environments, where the older students were helpful to the younger students in giving guidance and provided some informal tutoring.
My D went to a very good high school though nothing like yours! She was prepared for college and has done well her freshman year, but definitely experienced challenges managing the demands of her sport coupled with a few really difficult classes. She is by nature hard working and very organized and a good time manager; this might have developed after years of being involved in a sport with a seemingly endless training season. D3 schools do not offer special tutoring for their athletes, but that isn’t necessary because there is help for everyone in the form of writing labs, math help, office hours, etc. My D lived at office hours for one class-could have set up a cot. There is some accommodation for having to travel, though some professors are more accommodating than others.
One of my daughter’s athlete friends is struggling because she is not used to having to work hard and study hard. I don’t think this will be a problem for your daughter. For my daughter, the work load is definitely a big step up from high school, as it should be.
She did not apply ED. Only one school pushed that and we didn’t bite.
Holy Cross and Fordham are D1. Would she run there?
Thanks for the input, VMT. We hadn’t run the NPC on Fordham until a few days ago, and were disappointed to find it won’t be affordable anyway. Given it would be twice as expensive for us as the other schools on her list, we are eliminating it. Same for Drew, unfortunately, which we had just added as a possibility.
D is a strong DIII candidate who is good enough for the lower Div 1 teams, which those schools are for women’s xc and track. She would be fine time-wise for HC and the coach is interested in her, but we had put HC on the list when she was planning to major in classics. Now that she is leaning toward archaeology, she may not pursue it.
If your D goes to a high school which has sent students to these colleges in the last 5 years or so, I think those students may be good sources of info about workload, especially since you have older kids who may be able to give you some insight into how hard those students worked in high school. You can ask those students if the work load is easier, about the same, a little harder, or much harder than it was in high school. Since they are comparing the work load at the same high school your D attended with the college they now attend, their answers should be more helpful than those of random students you meet when touring.
Yes, this is far from perfect since majors differ and there are other factors, but I think it should give you a better idea than most comparisons.
On Connecticut College – friend of the family went there. Kid came from a middle-class family (income under $100,000), small rural public high school. Loved Conn and never complained about not fitting in socially.
Bumped to include an update: D attended F&M’s Junior Open House this weekend, which was her second visit. She had been lukewarm on the school after the first visit, but was very, very impressed after Saturday and is considering applying ED. However, the only potential negative was–you guessed it–their theme of “rigor.” In fact, during an academic panel a prospective student asked the faculty to distinguish F&M from her peer schools. One response was that F&M was more rigorous than Dickinson and Gettysburg, and a staff member implied via an alumnus anecdote that F&M students are trained by their college years to outwork even their Harvard and MIT counterparts in the workplace. However, a student review on an online site implied that while the school’s law and med school admissions rates are near perfect (a fact they love to tout), grade deflation and rigor had essentially knocked a lot of kids out of the running before they applied.
Given F&M is ranked the same as Dickinson by USNWR and only has a slightly lower admit rate, I am wondering how much more rigorous it can possibly be. Also, based on some information gleaned at the athletic panel at F&M’s Open House and from a discussion with a coach, it seems that athletes can be admitted with surprisingly low stats. I consider my D’s scores to be low for a school like that, yet apparently hers would be well above their basement numbers. So, what should I make of that? Is there some major those less qualified kids are being funneled into? As the parent of strong student-athletes, I certainly don’t want to join the jock bashers, but I was rather surprised a kid could be accepted there with an 1100 SAT or 23 ACT.
Can I assume my D will be just fine? Comments please, especially from parents of F&M students.
"SAT scores of admitted students aren’t relevant? " - not at all. SAT is a pretty low level test anyway and has nothing to do with the academic level at college. I am just answering your question based on my own kids’ experiences at in-state publics. SAT / ACT, HS GPA, graduating #1 in the HS class from HS that happened to be #2 in state among privates, did not result in easy time at college, but rather the shocking realization in both cases that the huge step up adjustment in academic efforts at college is a must, otherwise you get derailed from your initial goal.
However, you can assume whatever you want. I am just stating the fact that it was not the case with either of my kids. I cannot say otherwise, because it would not be truth.
I would take the rigor comments with a grain of salt. I have hired F&M grads in the past- they all seem to have had good grounding in writing, analytical thinking, and good breadth of knowledge. I would not compare the rigor to Cal Tech or MIT- it’s not that kind of college and they are not admitting Cal Tech level students. This is not a knock on the school but it’s just reality. You aren’t getting Harvard or MIT type students in the 23 ACT population and it’s delusional to think otherwise.
Can a fantastic “brainiac” be a bad test taker? of course. But they all end up at F&M? I’m not buying it.
It’s a fine school and if it’s a fit in terms of what your D is looking for I would not let concerns about workload be a deterrent. Every single college kid needs to balance their schedule each and every semester no matter what they are studying and no matter where they are.
I have always viewed Gettysburg as a rung down from Dickinson and F&M- no haters please, G is a fine school for the right kid. So saying that F&M is more rigorous than Gettysburg- well sure. Johns Hopkins is more rigorous than Farleigh Dickinson- so what?
re: Gettysburg. My friends’ son, who went to the same HS as my son, attended Gettysburg and also played lacrosse. According to her son, the academics at Gettysburg were not overly demanding. I wouldn’t consider my son’s HS a pressure cooker environment like the environment in which GFG’s daughter finds herself. FWIW - My son who attends a top-tier university finds the academic workload at his university are considerably higher than the demands were in HS. During his first semester at university, he told me that his biggest adjustment was getting used to being busy “all the time”. Just two anecdotal points of reference.
Yes, exactly, “…biggest adjustment was getting used to being busy “all the time”…”, including dropping some of the ECs and not being able to pursue ALL of the interests intended, but rather prioritize and pick and choose. Being open minded, flexible and having great time management skills with multitasking capability are important. Also, having balanced life is even higher priority at college where kids lose the closeness of the family support and their long term friends’ support…
Most online review sites aren’t worth the electrons they’re printed on.
Not saying good points aren’t raised on them now and again—but figuring what what’s the chaff and what’s a reflection of reality is effectively impossible.
For what it’s worth, in researching endless LACs for my prospective athlete, we heard chatter about grade deflation at F&M. As F&M doesn’t do merit aid anymore, only financial aid, and my kid’s search was shaped by merit aid, it was easy to take F&M off the list and not investigate it too much further. We did make multiple trips to Dickinson (which does give merit), and were very impressed. F&M and Dickinson struck us as very similar (including, both were founded by Benjamin Rush), so would really come down to fit and feel (and recruiting) for a specific student.
F&M is test optional (two writing samples can be substituted), so you can’t tell a lot from their test score ranges. I haven’t looked at their Common Data Set, but think of F&M as having more science majors, and those do tend to be more rigorous majors academically – could explain their own sense that their students work harder. I don’t buy that an F&M chemistry major works harder than a Dickinson chem major, though.
I would suggest visiting both schools and spending some time at each. I found the atmospheres to be different even though they go after many of the same types of students. I found one campus to be friendlier and more respectful then the other. I may have just hit that campus on a bad day or two but it was strikingly noticeable to everyone in our group. Our second visit reaffirmed our initial feelings. Ditto the third time on campus. At one school we found students willing to hold a door, look us in the eye and answer a few questions. Not so at the second school, so I urge you to visit both schools and hang out and spend some time at both.
