<p>And how can I be a ■■■■■ when I’m stating the truth? I’m tired of hearing “Berkeley this” “Berkeley that” and “Berkeley vs Yale” “Berkeley vs Dartmouth” threads when the decisions should be obvious.</p>
<p>Now, normally I would be for bashing Berkeley because it’s kind of overrated, but you’re clearly ■■■■■■■■. There are definitely greater injustices in the world than people asking whether they should go to Dartmouth or Berkeley (and there could be other factors like finance).
Yeah, ■■■■■■■■ doesn’t make you an idiot, but I can’t really imagine somebody who does great things who also has time to make useless posts like these.</p>
<p><strong>Also, wonders why this thread is still up on the first page when all people have to do is comment on other threads to keep this thread down. And the reason why this thread has gone to the third page is because of irrelevant conversations that are apart from the main focus, which is fine. And the MIT dude, stop generalizing. I thought that someone smart enough to go to MIT would be smart to not say that “the decisions should be obvious” because of reasons as indiscreetmath said. There may be some “unworthy students,” but it is not ALL. Stop generalizing, Mr. Prince. And the truth is subjective on these points. For some reason, Mr. Prince you are making MIT less attractive to me. I hope that the majority of students at MIT are like you. (Although I know they aren’t, and in reality there are probably people like you at Berkeley as well)</strong></p>
<p>@goodbyehello:</p>
<p>im sure mrprince isn’t actually like this in real life. im sure if someone from Cal went over there he could hold a polite conversation with the student. but it’s just that the internet does weird things to a lot of people (especially ones who need to enlarge their e-peen since they arent satisfied with their bodily one 
(jk… ish)) </p>
<p>he’s clearly ■■■■■■■■ to spice things up, and although it fizzled for pages 1 and 2 i think some posters on page 3 got hooked in lol. to be honest, i keep posting here in hopes that RML step in… mrprince v RML is always fun stuff</p>
<p><strong>Hm…will stick around b/c I want to hear of mr. prince v RML</strong></p>
<p>Because our chemistry department is ******* baller. Enough said.</p>
<p>I received a warning from xiggi – one of the moderators of this forum – for lambasting the ■■■■■ and for continually smashing his azz to the ground, so I decided that I would rather tone down a bit now before I get banned. Besides, as someone with smarts, great education (from Cambridge & LBS) wealth and class, it’s not a smart move to stoop down to an MIT janitor who fancies as an MIT student. Haha! :D</p>
<p>hehehe there it is…</p>
<p>and your retort, mrprince?</p>
<p>I think the OP knows that Berkeley is a great school. I think something happened between him and Berkeley. I’m not sure. Maybe something related to his Berkeley admissions. </p>
<p>This thread clearly says that he’s just ■■■■■■■■ (as what a ■■■■■ like him does) and I hope the moderator would take action on this this time around.</p>
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<p>Hanover sucks…'nuff said.</p>
<p>I’m not sure why Georgetown was included in that list. I suppose it may have some good specific programs, but so does Berkeley.</p>
<p>Easy to get into is subjective. Of course the admissions rate is higher overall. It’s a PUBLIC school. Since California taxpayers pay for the school’s budget, they are somewhat obligated to accept a really large percentage of California applicants. The only way this is going to change is if Berkeley becomes a private school.</p>
<p>If you look at the admissions rate of out-of-state students and internationals, the admittance rate is about 14% for both groups (Statfinder was my reference). That’s lower than Cornell and comparable to Penn and Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Lol, welcome RML. Are you not satisfied with the multiple times I’ve crushed you in previous threads? Or have you simply forgotten?
Well I haven’t. And I won’t argue any further or else I might end up dragging the source of your cute Berkeley fetish into this conversation.</p>
<p>But you are right. I DO think Berkeley is a great school. A great GRADUATE school and a great RESEARCH school. I don’t think its a good undergraduate school. The undergraduates of Berkeley are simply riding the prestige the graduates/research Berkeley has achieved. What posers. </p>
<p>This is how I see it:
Most of the people who couldn’t get into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT end up in Caltech, Columbia, UPenn, Duke, Dartmouth, Brown, and Chicago. But that’s fine. These are all great schools.
But the people who end up at Berkeley (excluding OOS)?? These people couldn’t even get into Caltech, Columbia, UPenn, Duke, Dartmouth, Brown, and Chicago let alone HYPSM. The accept loads of community college transfer students half of which probably had terrible high school academic records. And still CCers think Berkeley is on par with HYPSM?</p>
<p>CC has overrated Berkeley enough. I’m sick of it.
Aside from n99127’s comment on OOS/international quality of students, I have no reason to not believe undergrad Berkeley is terrible. As an ex-San Jose resident, I know exactly what I’m talking about.</p>
<p>Yes Berkeley is easy to get into.</p>
<p>Yes the average quality of Berkeley’s 25,000 undergrads cannot compare to that of a smaller school.</p>
<p>Yes Berkeley is vastly overrated by people in California (then again, Tufts and BC are considered good in Massachusetts . . . LOL) </p>
<p>Yes Berkeley has world class departments in every field imaginable.</p>
<p>Yes Berkeley has lots of smart people.</p>
<p>There’s no reason to believe that Berkeley is necessarily equal to all those schools you mentioned MrPrince. There is a reason why all of them are ranked higher than Berkeley in most rankings.</p>
<p>However, one important factor is that all of those schools you mentioned are also private schools. The largest complaint that most people have against Berkeley revolves around its large class sizes. This is obviously a result of its status as a public school, and there’s realistically nothing anyone can do to fix that problem except, like I said before, converting Berkeley to a private school. Some undergraduate programs at Berkeley are indeed highly regarded, such as the entire College of Chemistry and the College of Engineering. Both of these colleges have much smaller than average class sizes (excluding the prerequisites the students must take in the College of Letters and Science).</p>
<p>Another issue to consider is cost. While Berkeley certainly isn’t the cheapest of public schools, it does offer a much cheaper price tag than all of the private schools that you mentioned. Of course, there’s financial aid considerations to think of, but there’s always going to be some students/families who aren’t eligible for financial aid but wouldn’t want to pay the high cost of private school tuition either (or accept aid in the form of loans).</p>
<p>I would also contend that a good solid reputation and opportunities for research is a key part of undergraduate education. You may argue that undergraduate students are simply riding the reputation of the research and graduate programs, but quite frankly, participating in research projects will help you get into graduate school and into employment much easier. I can’t imagine it would hurt to work together with renowned professors.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t disagree with your assessment of transfer students. I believe that there is a really, REALLY long thread about the controversy and perceived unfairness of the transfer system at Berkeley somewhere in this forum. I would definitely refer you to that topic and its many sentiments.</p>
<p>What about Berkeley’s quality of undergraduate education strikes you as being not good? I know that you have talked a lot about the students being of poor quality, but I am unclear as to why the undergraduate education itself is poor. </p>
<p>Bottom line though, Berkeley has to balance a lot of different needs as a public school, and the fact that it is still the number 1 public school should still indicate that its still a competitive option. I wouldn’t put it on par to HYPMS, but its still a decent high end school.</p>
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<p>I turned down Chicago for Berkeley. My friend turned down Stanford for ChemE at Berkeley. My other friends turned down Penn, Dartmouth, and Duke for Berkeley. I’ve met someone who turned down MIT for Berkeley. There are reasons why people come to this school. Granted, I do sometimes agree that Berkeley is a tad overrated; however, I have to say that in our department, the undergraduates get to work with some of the most renowned professors/PIs in the nation.</p>
<p>I don’t know about other departments, but I think our College of Chem. is on par, if not, harder than some of the other “elite” schools. And that’s probably because Chemistry was born here (or, at least, a lot of it was). And yes, I’ve taken a look at the undergraduate coursework from other schools in the chemistry department I’m not intentionally trying to boast our department, but you can’t make such generalizations about who decides to come to Berkeley and you shouldn’t assume we’re here just because we “couldn’t get” into our peer institutions. That’s kind of a naive way to think.</p>
<p>And yeah, Berkeley is lashed out upon many times. We have our share of problems. We’re not the greatest school and we don’t have a super hardcore student body. But we do have a good majority of students who are willing to work just as hard as other students at peer institutions, so in the grand scheme of things, it all ends up turning out okay for those who work hard. I don’t even see the point of this thread. If you’re at MIT, shouldn’t you be focusing your time on other things that are probably more important? </p>
<p>In the end, we’re all focusing on our undergraduate career at our respective universities. If we do well in our academics, get good LORs, and make the most of our time here, we’ll be pretty successful (grad school, etc.).</p>
<p>Evidence MrPrice is a ■■■■■:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1042026-note-bashing-universities.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1042026-note-bashing-universities.html</a></p>
<p>So…he’s really making a parody of this type of argument by making a thread of it?</p>
<p>AHAHAHAHA XD</p>
<p>Mr. Prince and RML really crack me up. I love how you two are acting as if CC is your private little boxing match and the posters on this thread are your fans (…). I could see both of you sitting in your dorm rooms with your 3 in thick bifocal lenses and 5 foot puny builds, feeling satisfied about “crushing” each other on the internet.</p>
<p>Like the New York Times said, CC is “A Wealth of Information”; Concerned HS students come here for SAT help, “chancing”, and to share their admissions results; Premeds come here for information; Future Engineers come here for help too; etc… </p>
<p>CC is NOT the place for a couple of nerds to gather up and have a comic con convention. For F’s sake, you are both in the class of 2013 at some of the best colleges in the country. Be grateful for that and take advantage of the non-CC opportunities available to you… You are both pathetic.</p>
<p>That is all.</p>
<p>I don’t think RML is in the class of 2013…</p>
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<p>What is a great undergraduate school? I think Berkeley offers different opportunity depending on one’s course of study, to the point where talking about it by itself is useless. There are many courses of study for which the opportunities provided are terrific. Having a gigantic department in many fields implies lots and lots of offerings, different professors to build a relationship with. If you feel you are too smart for the average student body, you will never cease to be bored if you try to learn from the faculty (who might have been some of the greatest students out of schools like HYPS etc).</p>
<p>You are correct the OOS and internationals may be stronger. But also consider many Californians may choose to go here because it has top notch resources and is cheaper than going to many alternatives, which means many perfectly sharp students who did not get into, say MIT, would happily go here instead.</p>
<p>Of course as a public school, it is going to admit students with not as amazingly elite preparation, but as for whether it should or should not, I think we best say that discussion has been ground out enough in many threads. Not to say this current one has not ;)</p>
<p>Note - yes I understand this thread may be a ■■■■■ attempt, but I prefer not to assume that too quickly.</p>
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<p>Ths does sound a little too obtuse to not be ■■■■■ material, but then again I tend to expect too much of humanity.</p>