Warning. or so.

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>Hi I'd like to post a message to all those not sure if theyre interested in swarthmore. </p>

<p>This is not to dissuade you, it is just a warning of the truth. If you believe you are still destined to go there even after reading, then more power to you! good luck, its a good school.
But do take heed.
Swarthmore is one of the hardest schools you will ever pass through.
This summer, I spent 8 weeks working with a brilliant scientist at a naval research lab. After seeing its beautiful campus he thought, this is the place for me. Academics, beauty, it's perfect. He ED'd there and got in. He told me he hasn't been back since graduation, he hated it so much.</p>

<p>He said this to me after I visited and also fell in love with the campus, professors, and awesome engineering program.
Get used to the campus. It'll be the only thing you see for the next 4 years. Philadelphia, only a 30 minute ride away? hahaha. He told me the one day he did go there, he had to take work with him on the train, and when he spent the PART of the day taking a break on the weekend and visiting the city, he felt it for the next month, making up the work he fell behind in.</p>

<p>Direct quote. "In high school, I used to love watching the simpsons, I watched at least an episode a day. I watched 1 episode while at swarthmore and he felt guilty the entire time I was watching because of the work I wasn't doing."</p>

<p>Mind you, he had 4.0 uw gpa in highschool, had taken the hardest courseload, and breezed through, with almost perfect sat scores as well.</p>

<p>Students never stop studying. period. Because the campus is small and the group is so small, you know everyone and everyone's business and everyone knows yours. It is the stereotypical high school scene. Football players sit at one table, etc. (mentor was a football player)</p>

<p>Oh, and swarthmore doesnt even have a football team anymore, but that's not really important.
Anyway, my mentor basically told me this because he worked his butt off and barely received recognition. If you say "I graduated from swarthmore," you'll be greeted with a "Swarthmore? what? is that in france?" The only people who recognize swarthmore 99% of the time are graduate schools and the educated elite: ie:professors. GPA: dont worry, you will struggle, it has been ranked as one of the hardest colleges in the country to keep a gpa above a 3.0, and 3.5 is phenomenal. But graduate schools do recognize that.</p>

<p>Basically, work your butt off more than kids to at even the ivy league schools, for much less recognition and much more suffering.</p>

<p>That is all. For further details, feel free to PM me.</p>

<p>PS: If you are interested at all in a party scene, do NOT go to swarthmore. To myself, and to many people thats not an issue, im just letting people know. adios</p>

2

<p>Thank you for relaying the alum's sentiments, albeit secondhand. It sounds like he has come through with a satisfying career? What did he do after Swarthmore? Where did he attend graduate school, and was he well-prepared? Is he fulfilled now in his current situation?</p>

<p>There have been several recent threads with postings by Swarthmore alums and current students that you may want to refer to, which present a variety of insights about their individual experiences at Swarthmore. </p>

<p>Did you decide not to apply to Swarthmore's engineering school based upon this alum's experiences? Where did you apply?</p>

3

<p>Hi
Yes, he is working at the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington D.C. and is a research physicist currently working on his Masters, I'm sorry I don't remember where he is studying or how far he is into it, but he plans to ultimately pursue a pHD. He was completely worn out from swarthmore when he left, and that is why he didn't pursue graduate school immediately, rather he began working instead.
My point definitely wasn't that swarthmore isn't a good school if you happened to take personal offense, rather I was just telling everyone about his experience. He is very successful, although I think that is because of the nature of his talent and can't be completely contributed to swarthmore, even if he had enjoyed his time there.
Fulfilled, I believe so, he seems quite content, and he has a family as well. This past summer when I worked with him we also worked with a swarthmore professor who came down from swarthmore to research with the group. My mentor did not have him as a teacher personally, but knew him and that's how they came together. He laughs about it now, but says he hasn't been back since graduation and has horrible memories of the place.
While his experience did shatter my perfect view of the school, the main reason I did not apply to their engineering program was because of the size of the school. I definitely need a much larger environment. Also, I found their engineering department to be perfect for a graduate school follow-up, but not really preparing for the job market right away because of the General Engineering degree. While I plan on definitely going to graduate school right now, I don't want to lock myself in now if I do change my mind in a few years. Finally, I applied to Cornell, Northwestern, UVA, Brown, William and Mary (although they do not have engineering I am instate and I could take neuroscience and study engineering later down the road because I am interested in neural engineering), and Virginia Tech. If you have any more questions, let me know!</p>

4

<p>Sounds like your friend should have stopped to smell the roses a little bit (literally). Many Swarthmore students find the time to watch a few favorite TV shows each week -- for some, it's Gilmore Girls. For others, their favorite 3 time SuperBowl Championship NFL team....or the Eagles. From what I have heard, the widescreen TVs in most of the dorm lounges get plenty of use.</p>

5

<p>yup, i can vouch for the large amounts of (guilt free) tv-watching. im a current student, and every single sunday night without fail last semester a bunch of kids gathered around the tv to watch the simpsons, family guy, american dad, and south park. granted, most students bring homework with them and attempt to work on it during commercials to feel at least sort of productive, but they usually end up doing only a problem or two or only reading a few pages.
--fyi at least 3 of these kids are doing engin, so it's not like they're taking easy classes or have a lighter workload than normal</p>

6

<p>"mentor was a football player"</p>

<p>Maybe this has something to do with his lack of time (or his resentment of the place, since they cut the football program)?</p>

7

<p>I'm the son of momof3sons, also a current student, junior in the honors program. I didn't think it was a big secret that college is usually a step up (sometimes a very big step) from high school in workload. That being said, this sounds like a super-exception case. The classes all vary in difficulty, both in terms of grading and workload. I can imagine a schedule where one might feel pressured to the extent this guy did, but you'd have to voluntarily choose courses with extreme workloads. You could also choose a schedule that would require 40-50 hours work a week max to get a B+.</p>

<p>I should also point out that I've held a 3.75 GPA over my first four graded semesters (your freshman fall is completely pass/fail), so while this is not exactly easy to do so, it is attainable. This doesn't involve being a hermit, either; I spend an average of 20-30 hours a week in several various extracurricular activities.</p>

<p>I don't want to appear overly optimistic; several of my friends transferred out after freshman year. Not everybody who comes to Swarthmore made the right choice. However, none of those people left because the academics were too intimidating; those who do transfer usually do so because of the size issue.</p>

<p>The best way to get a better feel for this is to visit the school. If you still are unsure, apply, and attend admitted students weekend if you get in. You can only get so much perspective on a discussion board like this.</p>

8

<p>Well here's my perspective on the whole thing:
I went to Swarthmore for the Discovery Weekend and I've met certain students who go into Philly all the time to enjoy themselves or for nightlife or whatever. It is true that students told me they work HARD for their classes, but this is hardly equivalent to "they never stop studying." I disagree that Swat students work their butts off for little recognition... Grad schools certainly respect a degree from there.
And while the party scene is subdued at Swat, it seemed to me like there was plenty of alcohol if that was your thing and you were willing to look for it, and there was even a large party (w/ alcohol) on campus the weekend I was there. But if you really want to party, you can always go to Penn or hit up clubs on the weekends...</p>

<p>Your complaints about everyone knowing everyone are true at basically every LAC. If your friend didn't like that, he should have gone to a larger university.</p>

<p>Even though the courses are hard, the ones I sat in on were very engaging and discussion based and I left each one of them feeling like I had really learned something... and for me that's definitely worth the effort.</p>

<p>It's about balance... your friend felt guilty for watching one episode of the Simpson's? When I was there, we sat around watching Chapelle Show on DVD basically an entire Saturday night (although, I was with pass/fail freshman...)</p>

<p>The college de-emphasizes grades anyway... that's why your GPA is never officially calculated.</p>

9

<p>My son's a sophomore at Swat (for the benefit of people who don't know who I am). He has completed 2 semesters of graded work at Swat. While he probably would not qualify in Nancy_Reagan's book, his viewpoint is:
1) Swat is hard. You do have to work hard. He understands stress during exams and when he has 4 papers due all at once. He works on weekends, although not all the time.
2) There is ample time to go to Philly as well as extra-curriculars and work on campus.
3) He has great friends, some of whom visit him during holidays. We had a house full of Swatties for a while...
4) He does not have a 3.75, to be honest, but he is grateful for being at Swat and finally...
5) He thinks he is getting the best education money can buy in the US.</p>

10

<p>And yes, he also knows kids who dropped out/transferred out/were depressed, although not in the numbers Nancy_Reagan suggested.</p>

<p>And he's NOT thinking of transferring out.....see point 5 above.</p>

11

<p>there are always going to be mixed reviews from ANY school, especially one that is so small and particular- it takes a certain type to be happy there. he was the type of guy who didn't want to quit and felt like transferring would have been quitting because of the difficulty. and yes he did have a lack of time from football, but he was also an engineer, which takes much more time than the majority of the other majors and is one of the hardest.</p>

<p>PS: any current students have professor moscatelli?(physics) I worked with him this summer</p>

12

<p>Ok, now I'm worried. I knew Swat pushed its students and I was looking forward to be challenged academically. However, I want to have fun at college. I do not always want to be working. Sure I want to work and I want to think, but I also want to watch TV, go to Phili, hang with friends, go out to eat and NOT always be worried about work. When I overnighted, students didn't seem that stressed. I'm sure it is possible to go to Swat and take an easier major (psych, for example - I believe that is considered one of the "easier - less time consuming ones"). I know engineering is considered the hardest, what is considered some of the easier majors at Swarthmore? </p>

<p>You guys make it seem to be hell, even for those who have a passion for learning and knowledge. You speak of depression, suicide attempts, psych visits, transfering et al. </p>

<p>I always viewed Swat as an insitution that enabled its student body to thrive intellectually, academically AND socially. I thought that Swat understood the importance of intellect coupled with fun and compassion. When you speak of the incredibly hard, time consuming work, in many senes it scares me - to the point where I want to pull my EDII application. If this is the REAL Swarthmore - none of which I have seen, read or heard (near to this extent) - I guess I need to do some serious thinking, and quickly.</p>

13

<p>"professor moscatelli?(physics) "
<a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/news/inthenews/01/01.09.27.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/news/inthenews/01/01.09.27.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"in many senes it scares me - to the point where I want to pull my EDII application."
Great !!! I applied EDII. Now I have MORE chance to get in.</p>

14

<p>yea they had him make calculations about the collapse of the world trade center buildings. he told me about it, its actually really interesting. he dealt with the speed of the plans vs. the construction of the building. there are many articles about it on the net if you type his name into google too</p>

15

<p>I suspect that the caliber of one's h.s. plus your chosen major is very significant in how you will perceive and cope with the academics at Swarthmore. OP claims his mentor breezed through hs and got top grades. Perhaps he did not learn how to study well or how to write well in HS despite his native intelligence. A student at an academically rigorous place like Swartmore might have trouble keeping up absent a strong HS experience. I know many students at Swarthmore who attended top academic schools and were well-prepared to study hard. (At many of these schools students regularly study well over 40hrs per week in addition to taking 6-8 classes and pursing many ecs.) Swarthmore attracts students who value intellectual pursuits and are willing to/enjoy studying hard; I really don'tthink its any secret. Also, why anyone cares that someone doesn't know that Swarthmore is one of the top schools in this country is beyond me unless you are pretty prestige conscious. Well-educated people familiar with higher education all know that Swarthmore is the equal of any LAC in the country and are very "impressed," if that's an issue.</p>

16

<p>I'm a junior at Swat and in the Honors program. Descant, don't worry. Yes, Swarthmore can be stressful. Yes, it can sorta hurt. Yes, there will be nights when the workload makes you miserable. </p>

<p><em>However</em>, one thing that I haven't seen mentioned much in this thread is just how supportive Swatties are of oneanother. When it gets rough, you're going to have plenty of friends backing you up, knocking at your door late at night to get you to take a study break, or making sure you get out during the weekend so you don't overdo it. </p>

<p>One of the things I've appreciated most about my time at Swarthmore is that pretty much everyone there recognizes, understands, and shares the desire to work hard. That means we help each other through it. But we also understand balance, which means that, when necessary, you'll have people making sure you don't go overboard. That's teamwork. :)</p>

<p>I've known several people who either dropped out of Swarthmore or have taken time off. Some of them were dealing with emotional issues which predated Swat. I have a feeling that a lot of the people who "break down" at Swat do so because they were unprepared, not in terms of having a rigorous highschool experience, but in terms of being ready to put in the extra effort <em>even when the returns don't match what you're used to.</em> You have to be okay with not always being on top.</p>

<p>To sum it up: Yes, hard work. You'll have plenty of support from friends and faculty. The only reason to be frightened is if you don't think you can adapt. But you know, like they tell you on the first day of freshman orientation-- "We don't make admissions mistakes on who we let in. The only mistakes we make are rejections." You'll be fine.</p>

17

<p>Maybe the OP's mentor's experience was just as it was decribed here. It's one experience, one opinion. And that's valid, even if some here, as usual, don't like that it highlights one of Swarthmore's downsides. It's pretty consistent though with what I've seen and heard about Swarthmore. Just read some of the posts by alums and students on this board. Not everyone has a bad experience, but not everyone has a good or balanced one either. All schools have their pluses and minuses.</p>

<p>Thanks to the OP for sharing that.</p>

18

<p>Gah, I don't know. I thought that Swat was the place for me for the past two months - so I applied EDII. But here I am, and after reading Ms. Reagan's post, and now this one, I have some doubts. I knew that Swat pushed and challenged its students in everyway - that's why I applied - but after reading these posts it seems extreme. ED means that X school is one's unequivocal first choice, and, well, now I just don't know.</p>

<p>No one has to respond to any of this stuff, I'm just venting my anxiety =). </p>

<p>Out of curiosity, however, if within the next 3 or so days I decide to pull my ED II application and move it to RD, would admissions have a major issue with that? Doable?</p>

19

<p>


</p>

<p>Thank you. That made me a bit less nervous :)</p>

20

<p>descant-
If you tell the admissions committee how you're really feeling, it should bear no difference on your decision. I mean ED does give you an "edge" because not only do you promise to go there if accepted, but financially you do as well, which grants swarthmore an easy 40k/year if you don't qualify for aid. Anyway, ED is for students who are sure swat is their #1 choice, and I am sure the admissions committee would understand if you were unsure, because we as teenagers are going to be unsure! it's hard to say where you're going to spend your next for years of your life. Nonetheless, think hard before removing your application and don't base it on these posts, base it on what you know about yourself and what you know about the school. Do a little research, further than from blogs, and maybe even email a professor or two. Think about it before you do anything to hasty. Good luck.</p>