How could I turn down Princeton?

Parents Forum
141

<p>I don't consider the kids who attend our state U inferior to those who go private. I don't consider the kids who attend the privates superior to those at State u, nor do I consider their parents prestige whores or whatever folks who choose privates are alleged to be. I think people make hard choices for their kids and their families; no doubt with better insider information than the neighbors or sister-in-law has.</p>

<p>It would be nice if this respect were mutual. There are many wonderful things that a large state U has; it is very difficult to get the "you must be a moron for paying tuition at a private college" crowd to concede that there is anything valuable whatsoever about a private U- other than it is prestigious, which by definition means that the kids who go their are as elitist and deluded as their parents.</p>

<p>How sad. I love the Frick museum; it's small and intimate; some of the works are pedestrian and some are world class. You would never confuse it with the National Gallery or the Metropolitan museum; they have different missions even though you can go to all of these places to look at nice pictures and see interesting sculptures. But the experience is different- by design and not default; their missions are different, and to claim that one is superior to the other would be poor logic.</p>

<p>This thread is teetering off into Frick vs. Met land. When you are arguing as to which is better, Cornell or UMD you are about to fall into the gorge of logic. Don't go to Yale to become a nurse. Yale has a fine nursing school but it doesn't admit undergrads. That doesn't mean that U Conn by default is a better college but it is surely better if you are an 18 year old who wants a degree in nursing. For that matter, Norwalk Community College may absolutely be the best possible option for this kid.</p>

142

<p>BLOSSOM:
So true...all you wrote. Neither type of school is better overall. It is a matter of which one fits what you are seeking. I do get tired of people putting down paying for a private school as if the only reason someone picked the private school was due to prestige. </p>

<p>I grew up outside of Philly. I applied to UVM, got in, but did not attend. I now live in VT. I obviously have nothing against UVM...I applied there once myself. I have even taught there. I think it is a terrific university. I have a client from CA applying there right now in fact. It just wasn't the best fit for what my kids were looking for. </p>

<p>I love your nursing example. I would not go to Yale undergrad to become a nurse. Norwalk Community College is a better pick. Likewise, I have a kid who was seeking a professional degree program in musical theater...a BFA degree. UVM does not offer that. She had to go where those progams were offered and where she was fortunate to get in as the admit rates at these programs are in the single digits. She absolutely could not get the experience she is having at NYU/Tisch at UVM or anywhere else in our state. NYU/Tisch fits her. It has been worth the money. Also, "selective" or "private" doesn't always mean "more money." In fact, she won a four year substantial scholarship there and this year, her fourth year, three more scholarships have appeared in letters we have received. I have no complaints. The school was an excellent fit for her. It doesn't diminish my view of UVM. But UVM was not right for her.</p>

<p>PS, I'll probably get lambasted for this but the theatrical talent overall of her peers at Tisch are not on par with the overall group of theater students at UVM. I am sure there is SOME overlap, however. In order to learn more in her field, she needed to be with others with equal or more talent. She had "topped out" in our state in her field and she wanted to take her training further. That was one of several reasons she graduated HS early. She had nowhere else to go with her learning locally...she had already achieved what she could here. She needed to learn and reach higher.</p>

143

<p>soozievt - Anyone who lambasts you for that statement is clueless. You and your kids clearly do your homework and make intelligent choices. Not everyone deserves a gold star for everything they do - some are clearly better than others and if you have the talent to get into Julliard you go there and drop Miss Marie, the local piano teacher. If Miss Marie was the best she'd be at Julliard too!</p>

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<p>Soozie- agreed. When my daughter was looking at vocal performance programs, the first school she visited was Lawrence. It is a lovely school, but she (as a high school student at Interlochen Arts Academy) realized (and said) that it wasn't good enough for her. She was seeking a higher level, and she found it at some other programs and ultimately chose Rice. My son had no interest in Rice and wouldn't even look at it. To me, Rice is just about the perfect university if it only had Vanderbilt's strength in athletics. I wasn't the one applying to college, though (I had to keep reminding myself).</p>

145

<p>MOWC...my kids would not have applied to any schools in the South (every kid has their preferences and selection criteria!) but I had a student last year who is going into music composition and she got into Rice (Shephard) and is now a freshman there.</p>

146

<p>Yay Blossom's post #141. </p>

<p>I paid sticker price. It was worth it--well worth it. Would it be worth it for every kid? No. Ironically, it was worth it for my kid precisely because my kid has always been the hare in the tortoise and the hare story. Without competition, my kid doesn't--or at least didn't--work up to potential. </p>

<p>One of the issues in this thread is that as another poster has said, different people define elite differently. I don't want to get into an argument as to where the line should be drawn. I certainly wouldn't draw it based on US News rankings. I wouldn't pay $50,000
a year for some of the colleges described as elite in this thread if my kid could go to an honors program at some top public U. </p>

<p>But, very few people I know wouldn't consider each of the schools in the HYPS group elite. And very few people I know whose kids get in turn down HYPS. When they do so, it's often for non-financial reasons. When people do turn them down for financial reasons, they rarely give me "the you must be nuts to pay that much for an undergraduate degree" speech, especially if they have visited. They agree it was a tough choice. Usually, the reasons it was a tough choice have little to do with prestige. They visit and get a sense of the extraordinary opportunities these colleges offer. </p>

<p>HYPS are not the same as the honors programs at state Us--at least in my kid's field. I know that because my kid had friends in those programs who were green with envy when they saw the things my kid could do. They took courses from people who taught them about the writings of so and so. My kid took courses with so and so. There's a difference. For my kid, the difference mattered. </p>

<p>While I think the field matters, would it ALWAYS be "insane" to pay for UPenn nursing--which does offer undergrad nursing--vs. an associate's degree from a community college? I don't think so. I think that for some very smart young people who want to go into nursing, going to a school like UPenn where they could do other things outside the classroom and be surrounded by more academically-oriented students than at the local community college MIGHT be well worth the money. It might make a difference in their social life. Moreover, many people make the closest friends they ever make in college and they remain friends for life. Maybe a future nurse who is very smart and academically oriented would make closer friends at UPenn. Getting a BS vs. an associate's degree might make a difference in terms of career potential. It's a personal decision. </p>

<p>One thing that's interesting...to me at least. I've posted before about a book "The Select" and "Inside the Top Colleges." The book includes some surveys of kids at top colleges, including top public colleges. The rate of dissatisfaction among students at the elite public Us was greater than that at top privates. Fewer graduating seniors would pick the same school if they had it to do over again.</p>

<p>Again, I'm not knocking the right of anyone to make a different choice. I just get annoyed when I get a lecture about how I was "nuts" to pay for college because the only thing that matters is the professional degree. (I couldn't disagree more. ) *</p>

147

<p>Interesting that you mention UPenn nursing. One of my kids was advised to apply to the nursing program as an easier way to be accepted to UPenn. Unfortunately, it would have been too transparent because of the lack of advanced sciences on the HS transcript (there were advanced English, Social Studies and language classes). I do know of at least one student from our HS who went that route. Meanwhile, my kid was rejected at UPenn, wound up at a small LAC and is very happy there.</p>

148

<p>The point is to have the discussion and not assume one path is the true path. With the economy on the skids and unemployment on the rise making smart financial decisions matters a great deal to parents and their college bound progeny. Buy whatever product floats your boat but do so with some awareness of the sacrifices inherent in the decision.</p>

<p>Once the decision is made it's generally wise to make the decision work for you. In all probability a bright and talented kid with good core values is going to do well wherever he/she decides to study. Privates are obviously a great choice for some and even the least expensive choice for many. The same is true for good St. Universities.</p>

<p>Just have the discussion and weigh the decision smartly. That's what we did and are about to do again.</p>

149

<p>
[quote]
In all probability a bright and talented kid with good core values is going to do well wherever he/she decides to study.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. The main difference will be the experiences one would have in different college settings. But a good student is going to fare well no matter where he/she goes.</p>

150

<p>
[quote]
she didn't have a need to attend an Ivy

[/quote]
No one has a "need" to attend an Ivy. But many "want" to.</p>

151

<p>Greetings!</p>

<p>"Frankly, I think kids and parents are CRAZY incurring large debts to attend an ivy school if they can go for almost free at a decent state university."</p>

<p>Choice is a lovely thing, and everyone SHOULD have it. But... I have to say that I agree with Taxguy's basic point. It really doesn't make sense for people to incur huge debts to go to school for most undergraduate degrees. Note he/I are talking about "debt" -- NOT huge expenses. There's a big difference! As some of us have argued in other threads, "financial match" should be considered part of "good fit". So the flagship state uni, LACs with good merit aid programs, etc should be part of most applicants' lists.</p>

152

<p>cadbury, one needs to consider what they are going to undergrad school for too. For one of my daughters, she is in a professional terminal degree program as an undergrad that is specialized. No grad degree will be needed. Further, our state U doesn't offer this degree program. My D attends NYU/Tisch and received a lot of scholarship money but also we have many loans out to fund her fantastic education that she could not have had at our state U. Our state U is great; don't get me wrong. She could not have done what she is doing there, however.</p>

153

<p>The more I read Taxguy's posts in this thread, the more certain I am that he views the college years in a much different light than I. Additionally, if you don't know the difference, then why pay the difference. This is especially true with respect to red wine.</p>