<p>That's what my friend Amy asked me the other day, in reference to a boy from a local high school who was admitted Early Decision to his top-choice college while another senior from the same school (a female Amy knows well) was denied. Amy contended that the girl has a much stronger record. </p>
<p>I offered my thoughts on why the boy might have received good news while his classmate didn't (he's a double legacy; college has fewer men) but also pointed out to Amy that she and I aren't privy to what admission officials see--and talk about--behind closed doors.</p>
<p>Even so, it's hard to resist Monday-morning quarterbacking ... i.e., trying to decipher confounding admission verdicts.</p>
<p>Every spring, in fact, there are unexpected admission decisions in my orbit: The great kid who is turned down by Fantasy State while the seemingly so-so classmate gets good news from the same school. </p>
<p>Have other CC parents encountered any such situations? If so, what are YOUR Monday-morning theories on these odd outcomes?</p>
<p>I’m not sure this is the answer you are looking for…I did NOT enter into these conversations. As you note, we do not know what admissions folks are honing in on…or not. We don’t know the little things that might or might not place one student in the acceptance pile. And we don’t know the little weaknesses that might negatively affect an admission. Further, we don’t KNOW for sure whether a student really has a better or worse academic record than another unless WE are viewing the total packages side by side.</p>
<p>This is a situation where you say “congratulations” to the student who was accepted. And you say “I’m looking forward to hearing about your childs acceptances” to the kid who wasn’t. </p>
<p>Then change the subject to the kind of toothpastes you use.</p>
<p>I suspect my D2 is the subject of some of this “Monday morning” quarterbacking at the moment (EA admission to a school where a couple of other EA applicants from her class were deferred). One girl in particular has been pretty unpleasant to D over the past several weeks since the girl was deferred at this school and rejected at her ED school (Ivy). What I think the other applicants don’t know are:</p>
<ul>
<li>While they have slightly higher GPAs (which they do know), my D has stratospheric test scores (2280, and two 800 SAT Subject tests in widely divergent subjects)</li>
<li>D has long aspired to attend this EA school, and wrote a “Why X” essay that shows how her ECs and interests, and knowledge of the school, make her a very good fit. Not generic at all, very much in line with the school’s reputation and strengths. I believe her recommendations also emphasized the qualities that this school looks for as well.</li>
<li>D got a extra reference letter from an activity coach who knows her very well and is an alum of the school, and I happen to know that he also believes that D is a perfect fit for this school. I think he wrote a letter for the other girl as well, but I am guessing his letter for D was stronger. </li>
<li>D is interested in majoring in a subject that is not as typically a “girl” major, and again… her ECs, grades, essays, etc. showed this in a consistent way. Some of her ECs are outside of school, and the other students are not aware of them.</li>
</ul>
<p>What I would say is that there are a lot of components to the application that other people (parents and other students, and even the GC if they do not review applications) do not know about.</p>
<p>Regarding “boys vs. girls”, I’ve read the Kenyon admissions director’s essay about the imbalance trend between accepted non-URM male applicants’ lower scores/GPAs averages versus accepted non-URM female applicants’ averages. I also asked an admissions officer at another prestigious LAC whether this trend was also occurring at their school, got a head-nod, and was told there was a 2 to 3 point spread between ACT averages for male versus female applicant pools.</p>
<p>All of this makes me glad that I have just ‘average’ kids who weren’t in competition with their friends and other students. In fact, the subject of who is going to which college rarely even comes up.</p>
<p>The whole admissions process at various colleges seems (at times) mysterious and random to me. One kid at my son’s high school got into 2 of the Ivies but got denied by a good but not as competitive state university. My son was deferred by what should have been a safety for him (his GPA was higher and SAT was 400 points higher than another kids who did get in) and another friend of his was wait listed at what should have been a safety for him.</p>
<p>I think there are things that various committees look at that we have no way of knowing. It can be anything from “we already have too many kids from that state” to “want to see a more well-rounded student”, etc. I think demonstrated interest can also play a role, especially at the private universities and colleges.</p>
<p>My older son got into Harvard over some higher ranked kids. I doubt anyone questioned it, but if they had it was pretty easy to justify. He was a double legacy, he had a perfect CR score, 800s on all his subject tests, he was extremely accomplished in computer programming which he did completely outside school. That included working part time all during senior year and the summer before. He didn’t do a lot at school, but both Academic Team and Science Olympiad did very well in the years he was on the team, and he contributed to their success.</p>
<p>My younger sons admissions results were better than expected even to us. I think it helped that he made a conscious decision to have fun with his essays. They were funny and personable, sometimes even a little silly. (He told Tufts he wanted to go there because of the chalk on the sidewalks - he figured every other kid in the world would tell them active citizenship and the great IR program.) I think he probably seemed like a breath of fresh air to admissions officers. He also got an amazingly nice letter from his pre-calc teacher despite the fact that he only got a B+ in the course. (The teacher said he had the best mathematical mind in the class, but suffered from not being very good at memorizing formulas which slowed him down on tests.) I think his very high CR score and being male helped as well - at least at some of the places he applied.</p>
<p>I will never forget one of my oldest’s close high school friend who got rejected by every school that she applied to except her safety. It just didn’t make any sense and it was heartbreaking to see her sit back and watch all of her friends get the news they wanted from their top choice schools . She was a strong, well rounded student
She stayed at the school for one year and transferred out to another school where she finished her undergrad and grad studies.</p>
<p>My nephew was disappointed that he didn’t get into a couple of his top picks. He’s very arrogant and it was probably hard for him to learn that others didn’t share his opinion of hisself. I think the grandparents were also a little shocked.</p>
<p>lje62, one of my kids had a friend who went through the same thing. She was convinced she would get into one/two reaches because of alumni connections. Not only didn’t she get accepted at either of them, she wasn’t accepted at a match school that really would have been perfect for her. Friend took off a year before attending (was considering applying elsewhere but didn’t) and ended up loving undergrad at the safety school. I still think she should have been accepted at the one school but I know that particular school has a lot of artsy, white suburban girls and she probably didn’t stand out enough or show enough interest.</p>
<p>Student here: quite often you don’t know what the applicant did in addition to grades and SATs. One girl at my high school worked 20 hours a week at a fast food job for a couple of years, eventually getting promoted to assistant manager. She had lower than average SATs for Georgetown (fell near the 25% mark) but nearly perfect grades. Another guy from my school had great grades and fantastic SAT scores, but all of his ECs were the stereotypical impress colleges ones dominated by upper class students. They both applied ED to the college, not SFS, but the first girl got in, while the second was rejected. </p>
<p>At a certain point, SATs/GPAs stop mattering and what you do outside of school becomes far more important. Maybe that year Georgetown was looking for students who had already proven they could be real leaders, no matter their income level. Maybe it wanted more diversity (she’s a URM). Maybe it wanted someone whose first name started with an F rather than a P. The point is, for non formula based schools it can be impossible to know why a student got in, while another, seemingly “stronger” student was rejected.</p>
<p>We would always bitterly suggest that the student’s grandfather probably has a building named after him on campus. (Especially with a double legacy) It’s a great story, whether you know anything about the family history or not.</p>
<p>I am happy when friends and relatives tell me that their kids made it into Princeton, MIT, Harvard, State U or the local community college.</p>
<p>As to why? Why do people make decisions on others? I make decisions about other people and sometimes they are arbitrary. Not everything that you decide is strictly on the merits. Does it matter? Not to me. I want to see students make the best of what they have.</p>
<p>I’ve seen this happen for Oxford and Cambridge admissions; one who everyone thought was a dead cert, another who was a bit so-so as Oxbridge applicants go. The former was rejected, the latter got in. </p>
<p>The only thing I can think of is that the first one struggled somewhat at interview, as she is a bit socially awkward, possibly on the edges of Aspergers. The one who got in, by comparison, is something of a social butterfly. It’s a shame really, but whilst I have lost touch with them both the one who was rejected got into another small, rural university with excellent academics which I can see suiting her really well.</p>
<p>A parent provided this link in another thread about Duke. If you look at the way they rate it, Essays, LORs, ECs, and personal qualities are making up 4/6 categories which are not necessarily tied to academics. People are usually looking at SAT scores and GPA/rank and are not paying any attention to what is going in other areas if they are surprised.</p>
<p>In addition to the qualitative review of applications, readers still rates applicants on a five-point scale in six categories: achievement, academic curriculum, essays, letters of recommendation, extracurricular activities and personal qualities. Although top scores from the rating system—a feature preserved in the updated admissions process—do not solely determine the fate of the application, Guttentag noted that such measures help officers magnify what would ordinarily be minute differences among applicants.</p>
<p>Funny story. I ran into the parent of one of my son’s former H.S. classmates and she asked where he was going. Her first reaction after she found out was to ask if it was because he was a legacy. I didn’t know whether to be insulted for him or take it as a complement that she thought I was smart enough to have gone to that school! LOL.</p>
<p>The bottom line is, people make all kinds of assumptions about who is entitled to get into what schools, and many people are misinformed about what it takes to get in. And some of it ends up being just random.</p>
<p>This sort of question can be asked throughout one’s life…why not me? I think it gets boring after awhile-why did he get: the job, college, opportunity, grant money and not ME. We can ponder these things and then move on. We will never know.</p>
<p>I guess we don’t see a lot of that. Our school is pretty transparent about class rankings, the kids talk about test scores, the kids know who are the truly smart kids in the class vs the kids that study and study and study to get better grades. No one was surprised when the class Val didn’t make NMSF but the several kids that did were no surprise. I’m sure there are some parents that don’t really understand the process that may be wondering but for the ones that have been through the process, no real surprises. I think our GC’s do a good job working with kids and the reality of getting into an Ivy or similar.</p>
<p>“Even so, it’s hard to resist Monday-morning quarterbacking … i.e., trying to decipher confounding admission verdicts.”</p>
<p>Actually it’s pretty easy. I didn’t follow any kid’s journey other than my own kids. As to their friends - my kids told me when their friends had decided and I said oh, how nice for them. If other people speculated on my kids - which I highly doubt - I didn’t hear a word of it. I didn’t / don’t socialize with any parents from my kids’ hs, anyway. </p>
<p>"Every spring, in fact, there are unexpected admission decisions in my orbit: The great kid who is turned down by Fantasy State while the seemingly so-so classmate gets good news from the same school. </p>
<p>Have other CC parents encountered any such situations? If so, what are YOUR Monday-morning theories on these odd outcomes?"</p>
<p>Why would I spend one minute of my time worrying about some kid not my own, whose only link to me is that he’s in the same grade as my kid?</p>