<p>“I took them for a form of “humorous” exaggeration, directed at unnamed but rather specific people, based on personal qualities that were probably either neurologically or culturally based (or both), characteristics not chosen by them, and either not under their control, or only partially so.”</p>
<p>It would be interesting to understand your own biases – which led you towards believing these were directed at students of Asian descent - when in fact there was nothing in the remarks to suggest they were directed to a group but rather towards specific individuals that the interviewer had encountered – and indeed the interviewer was apparently responsible for England, not Asia. </p>
<p>I do think it was a clunky interpretation to think that the remarks about individuals who had “never encountered soap” must have been directed at poor students in Third World countries who had no choice but to take public transportation, ride a bike 200 miles, etc. and not smell like roses. I’m sorry, but it seemed like common sense that the interviewer was referring to individuals who didn’t bother to bathe, not individuals who had highly extenuating circumstances. This is the literalness that I do think trips you up – just like the literalness of “The popular kids told Z not to sit at the lunch table, so the adcoms would conclude that the popular kids had social skills and Z doesn’t.” I think it’s evident you have a good heart (F on Myers-Briggs?) but you do go more literal than many of us.</p>
<p>Trying to “coach,” however, is different from discussing what an interview with a stranger might be about, familiarizing a kid. It’s one thing to suggest he anticipate questions and how he might answer. Another to provide answers.</p>
<p>^You stopped in the middle of a sentence. I have been on numerous job interviews and certainly anticipate in advance how I might answer such inane questions as “what is your biggest weakness?”</p>
<p>Literalness also involves focusing on one aspect, rather than exploring the context or conversational flow- or other explanations for certain wording.</p>
<p>That’s why ethnic humor, which plays on stereotypes, has been around for a long time. “Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior” was both funny and thought-provoking, because many of the patterns Amy Chua noted really exist. I don’t want to live in a society where everyone walks on eggshells.</p>
The worst were the “guy with no arms and no legs” jokes. My kids could not even believe there were such things when I mentioned them. The only ethnic ones I remember as a kid were the Polish ones. We didn’t live in a particularly diverse area.</p>
<p>Yes. There have been lots of threads on humor, especially ethnic humor, on cc including one recently about the party at Duke. I have given up trying to explain my views and I don’t have the energy to start over. </p>
<p>Beliavsky - While I appreciate you may not want to live in a society where one has to “walk on egg shells” I suggest you may want to consider (if you haven’t already) what advice you want to give your college age kids on this subject, because future employers, etc. may not hold your views. Some people, sometimes in positions of great influence, find this humor completely unacceptable. Better safe than sorry. Unless you are willing to take the chance to make the point that you have the right to make these sorts of jokes.</p>
<p>I hear you loud and clear. It takes me a little longer to respond because I was trying to dig up some old articles that seem to an undercurrent that I did not fully understand at the time, and now I suspect is related to the stereotype you just mentioned. No matter, lets get to the main event.</p>
<p>You must remember I have spent a grand total of two years in the US but almost all my life in the British Commonwealth. My perspectives are different from yours. For me the sore point has always been class, not race or ethnicity. Until you said so earlier in the thread, I thought you are a rich Catholic mother that is rich enough to dream of an Ivy education for the children but not rich or powerful enough to buy their way in. Believe it or not, I am also unaware of the stereotype you just mentioned.</p>
<p>If you want evidence, I would suggest you look back at the thread where you called me stupid twice in one post for not agreeing with you. After two days of fruitless waiting for support I decided to respond with Christian symbolisms (not Jewish ones) which started a row. When bevertine came to your assistance, I thought it was because of national and religious affinity. When he made a not-so-subtle hint at ethnicity, I was certain it was ethnic/national/religious affinity, and in that particular order. I even joked with my other half, a Catholic, that it is a holy affinity.</p>
<p>I have been brutally honest here and may have inadvertently opening up old wounds if not starting new ones. So be it. If you are still not convinced, you can go through all my old posts and see for yourself. There are not that many of them.;)</p>
<p>On the other hand, if you are a woman, minority, over 40, then you could make any jokes you want because we have most of protected classes covered.</p>
<p>It is silly not to practice/coach your kid how to interview, whether it is for schools or for jobs. What good is someone’s brilliance if it can’t come through during an interview? Some may think if it is there then it would naturally come through, but for all the years I have interviewed candidates for jobs, I don’t think so. What comes through sometimes is the nervousness, awkwardness and saying some inappropriate things at the interview. Even at my very techie company now, where they are more forgiving with social awkwardness, they still look for analysts who could communicate well with customers. </p>
<p>If I had a very intelligent kid, but socially awkward, I think I would spend some time and money to coach my kid to be more socially aware/adaptable. In the long run, a person who is well liked by his/her peers will be happier and confident.</p>
<p>I will give one example in real life. I have one young woman (late 20s) working for me. She is a graduate of HYPS, a brilliant person, but had absolutely no social presence. Most of the time if you were in a room with her, you would never knew she was in the room. She had the most industry knowledge, so she was put in the position of being the team lead (she was put in the position before I arrived). She was in tears most of the time because she didn’t know how to manage her team nor our customers. I had to work with her few times a week on how to manage her time, coach her on how to push back and how to allocate work to her staff. In the beginning I literally had to stop a room full of people from talking when she was trying to say something and to tell her to speak up (volume). Interesting enough, when she could be heard she had very insightful information to share. After a while, people at meetings would wait for her speak when she looked like she wanted to speak. She would look at me sometimes when she is uncertain and I would nod to encourage her to continue (give dagger eyes to others if they tried to cut her off). I sent her to a management training program so she could gain some skills in managing her staff. I used to chair her weekly staff meetings, but now she speaks most of the time. This young lady is more confident and happier now. What’s interesting is recently she got a more stylish hair cut and people commented on how pretty she looked. I hope soon she will feel even more confident about herself and maybe her personal life (find a SO) will improve too. In this young lady’s case, I wish growing up her parents didn’t just focus on her academic achievements. She would have been happier if she had more confidence socially. It only took a little bit of mentoring to bring out her other skills. She is now one of stronger members on my team.</p>
<p>I don’t have the time (or patience) to read this whole thread which has gone SOOOO off topic. However, I did read the last couple of pages, and I have a simple request.QuantMech…could you please summarize your copious posts and what you are trying to say…IN ONE SENTENCE. Your lengthy posts are difficult to read and follow in my
opinion.</p>
Canuckguy, thanks for posting this–it explains something about your viewpoint. I do think that explaining things in the US on the basis of class doesn’t really work, and it works less and less as time goes on. There really is not much of an entrenched money/power class in the US now–it’s much more fluid than that. Race, on the other hand, continues to be a major issue here. And I don’t know if it’s true of you, but other Canadians I have known also didn’t really get the role religion plays in the US.</p>
<p>To put this another way, the rich in the US wield a lot of power, and do a lot to keep themselves rich–but it doesn’t really matter to anyone how long you’ve been rich.</p>
<p>Back just momentarily. Mainly to read, only. But I wanted to respond to Hunt #1203, calling out everyone for not genuflecting sufficiently. Earlier on the thread, I referred to Hunt as the “voice of reason, as always.” That was sincere. If I try to convert that to a comment “mit Schlag,” I can’t do it without seeming phony.</p>
<p>I’d also like to disagree to some extent on whether you should “coach” somebody before an interview. I’d agree that you can’t coach somebody into an entirely new personality, but there are things that a teenager just doesn’t know about how to behave in an interview–and there may be some misconceptions about it due to cultural norms. For example, you can definitely teach somebody how to shake hands, how to look the interviewer in the eye, and how to give direct answers to questions. Also, interviewing is a skill, and practice can help a lot.</p>
<p>"When bevertine came to your assistance, I thought it was because of national and religious affinity. When he made a not-so-subtle hint at ethnicity, I was certain it was ethnic/national/religious affinity, and in that particular order. "</p>
<p>Well, I guess you’ve learned something new.</p>