How do I Help Convince My Dad I Should Go to School on the East Coast?

Parents Forum
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<p>So right now I live in rural Minnesota. It's always been my dream to go to an ivy league school on the east coast. My dream school is Yale University.. and my dad is very set against it. He says that it'll be harder than I think it's going to be and that I don't know that it won't be what I think it'll be like. I know it's going to be very hard. He says he doesn't care if I go out there after my freshmen year, but not right away. The schools I've been looking at though, their admittance rate drops significantly for transfer students. Yale or not, I've always dreamt of going to college on the east coast. I really want to make this happen and my mom has been trying to help me convince my dad that it wouldn't be so bad. I try to tell him that worst comes to worse I can always transfer back. He's asked me to look at colleges closer to home and so I've been doing that for him, but he still won't budge. It has nothing to do with finance. That I would understand.</p>

<p>Also I have a 4.0 GPA. I'm in a lot of extra curricular activities, I've always been independent. I know how to cook, clean, do laundry, everything that taking care of myself would require. I'm also very determined. I hope it's hard. You can't just not try new things because they're going to be hard or scary.</p>

<p>Please try and help. I don't know what to do to convince him that this is what I really want. I'd be willing to do anything, if he would support me and my plans to move out there.</p>

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<p>This is probably in the wrong forum (better off in the Parent’s Forum). But to respond anyway… is there any way you can get him to let you apply to just a couple of east coast schools, and some in the Midwest as well? Carleton, Macalester, Northwestern, U of Michigan are all Midwestern possibilities. But then Yale and maybe one other east coast school that isn’t such a reach… since the odds of getting into Yale are ridiculously small, and you might want another east coast option. Then… if you get accepted, ask if you can go visit then.</p>

<p>Are you female? What about a women’s college? Trust me, the women’s colleges on the east coast ROCK. Even women who think they don’t want an all girl’s school are sold once they visit these campuses. Wellesley, Smith, and Mount Holyoke are a few to consider. It might be a compromise with your dad (because if you are female, it might explain one reason why he is hesitant to let you go). Wellesley isn’t Yale, but trust me – it is still a long ways from rural MN (I live in MN, so I feel I can say that :D) and would be a great experience.</p>

<p>Why are you so sure finances are not an issue? These schools are really, really expensive. Has he really got a quarter of a million dollars to cover one of these schools? If not, you need to work with your parents (maybe your mom) to run the net price calculators to see if you really can afford them. Now… if you do need financial aid, you can make the argument that Yale, Princeton, and Harvard offer the best aid of anyone. If you get in, it could be cheaper than Carleton or Northwestern, for example.</p>

<p>I think you should try to avoid transferring if you don’t have to. Not just because of the difficulty in admission (it is difficult, though, for top schools), but because you make a lot of friends and get a lot of benefit from spending all four years on one campus. Plus, aid often isn’t as good for transfer students…</p>

<p>Finally, even though your dad may not admit it, he probably just thinks he will miss you too much if you go far away. Take it from a mom whose kid just left for school in California, this is probably a big factor. It is really tough for your family to only see you a couple of times a year. So keep in mind that this could be part of his concern. A hug and “I love you, Daddy” might go further toward softening him up than any show of independence or argument even could. It is hard for parents to see their kids go far away. What if they don’t come back? :frowning: That could be in his mind as well, that you might just stay on the east coast (especially if you meet a significant other and/or find it easier to get a job there). But he also probably wants you to be happy. So keep trying to ease him along. Show him you are making an honest and fair effort to find schools you like that are close to home, too.</p>

<p>One more thing to consider, some colleges have exchange semesters with other colleges or things like semesters in Washington, DC. So you can spend a semester on the east coast and get credit for it, even if you go to college someplace closer to home.</p>

<p>Have you taken the SAT yet?</p>

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<p>No about the SAT. I’ll be taking that and the ACT this spring. I’m sure the price tag isn’t appealing to my parents, but when I asked them about it they said that that wasn’t why they didn’t want me to go. I’ve been looking at colleges around here, (carleton, st. olaf, U of M), but the really small ones don’t off the major I’m looking for. I want to become an architect. I have also looked at other colleges on the coast. I just mentioned Yale because that’s my dream one. I am a female and I do believe that has partly to do with why he doesn’t want me to leave, but he can be pretty stubborn, like daddy like daughter. By the way, this is my first post… I’m still trying to figure out how to work it a little bit. And also thank you. It’s helpful to get some feedback from someone not so close to the situation.</p>

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<p>Well, without SAT scores no one can chance you for Yale. :slight_smile: And you also need to take subject tests for some colleges as well, I am sure they are required for Yale.</p>

<p>You do need to run net price calculators with them soon. This spring at the latest. There is no point in applying to schools you can’t afford. Your parents may be saying that is not the reason they don’t want you to apply, but what they may mean is, “We have very good reasons for you to stay close to home, so it doesn’t matter that we can’t pay for it because we aren’t going to anyway.” </p>

<p>Also, take a look at this:</p>

<p>[Unemployment</a> soars among college majors like architecture - Jan. 4, 2012](<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/04/news/economy/unemployment_college_major/index.htm]Unemployment”>Unemployment soars among college majors like architecture - Jan. 4, 2012) </p>

<p>Architecture does sound like a cool major. But the unemployment rate is very, very high… so give some serious thought to this, as you could spend an awful lot of money on a college degree and not have a job when you are done.</p>

<p>I just checked, it does not look like U of Wisconsin Madison offers an architecture major. Too bad, as MN has reciprocity with them, and Madison is a pretty good college town. U of Michigan has it (Northwestern does not). You could ease him eastward by talking about Michigan… but he may have trouble stomaching the out of state cost.</p>

<p>Cornell might be an option for architecture – it is Ivy and still east-coast-ish. But easier to get into than Yale. But you would still need to sell your dad on it.</p>

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<p>How about getting him to let you apply to schools you like (including nearby schools with architecture) and later choose where to attend from acceptances?</p>

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<p>To play devil’s advocate - why the East Coast? “Always dreamt” is an interesting concept to me for college admissions; we often hold onto to childhood notions of things we want that are transmitted to us through movies, telvision, books, others’ opinions, etc. The East Coast ranges from Maine to Florida and has hundreds of colleges and universities that are all very different from each other; in fact, a single school on the coast may have more similarities to a school or schools in the Midwest than others on the East Coast. I would gently suggest getting unattached to the idea of the “East Coast” in the abstract and just think about the ideal qualities you want in your college (many of which may be attached to colleges in the Northeast or on the East Coast in general, which is fine of course).</p>

<p>Wanting to go to Yale, however is different. You’re absolutely right in that it is very difficult to transfer into Yale. Can you come to a compromise? You apply to some colleges closer to home but also 3-5 schools on the East Coast.</p>

<p>I was also about to post that architecture has the highest unemployment rate of undergraduate majors - about 13%. But other smaller, private Midwest universities that offer architecture are Notre Dame and Washington University in St. Louis. You also may consider Ohio State, as that offers the major too.</p>

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<p>What about Yale is so appealing? Have you been there? Have you compared it in person to other colleges? Probably not. So you have no basis for wanting to go there except that it is some image you have in your mind. It’s like me saying I want to marry Brad Pitt because he is so “dreamy” ;)<br>
Do some real **research **on colleges. Get a few good guidebooks like the Fisk Guide and start reading about different colleges and how to find ones that are a good match for you. Find schools that have your major(s) (try to think of other careers that could make you happy) and have the features of Yale that matter to you.</p>

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<p>I’d recommend trying to convince him to let you apply to a few schools on the east coast (or wherever you’d like to go) to keep your options open. Apply to a few schools near you as well (or schools that your parents would want you to go to). Perhaps, give you mom and dad a couple picks of schools you apply to, and then you can make the rest of your list how you’d like to. That will give you some options when it comes to decide, and you can discuss it with your parents when you have a real sense of what your options are. There’s no use in fighting this battle, if you don’t even get into Yale (not saying you won’t, of course, but many qualified students don’t get in every year).</p>

<p>There’s no harm in applying, and he may be more amenable to that if you also have schools on your list that are closer to home.</p>

<p>Then, when it comes time to choose a college, come up with a mature, rational, and realistic argument about why you want to go to a particular school that you were accepted to. Don’t just say it’s your dream school–make an argument for how you’ll be able to afford it, why it’s the best choice for you and your future, and how you’ll manage to adjust to the change on your own. Try to make objective arguments, rather than just saying you’ve always wanted to live on the east coast. Obviously, it’s nice to live your dream, but try to talk about what you could get at this particular school that you couldn’t get at a school your father would prefer. Show them that you are a capable adult that is able to make this big change.</p>

<p>If he’s concerned about the workload, show him how your academic record speaks to your preparedness for college. If you have an acceptance in hand, it helps, as well, because they wouldn’t have accepted you, if they thought you were going to fail out. Perhaps, you could research the academic supports they have at the school you want to go to, so you can show them that you are prepared for the challenge but if you do struggle, you know how to get help.</p>

<p>If the concern is that they don’t want you going so far away, perhaps you could show them how you plan on coming home over the holidays or reassure them that you’ll call every week or month to check in with them and chat about how it’s going. You could even skype them every once in a while, so they can see how you’re doing.</p>

<p>If the issue is that you’re a girl and he’s nervous about sending you off on your own, perhaps you could research the safety of the campus and the surrounding area of where you want to go. You can let him know that you are aware of resources for safety on campus (campus security, panic buttons, self-defense classes, etc), and you’ll make sure you’re in a group if it’s after dark or you’ll bring pepper spray or something. He’s just worried about you. He’ll get over it.</p>

<p>If the concern is financial, well, that one is harder to argue against, since it is a very important consideration to take into account. Make sure that you’re not going to go into serious debt just to live on the east coast. You have your entire life to live on the east coast. There’s no reason you HAVE to go to college there.</p>

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<p>Cost may be more of a factor than you realize (or that your parents want to admit). Of course, you have a better situation than I do, but my parents never wanted me to allow finances to limit what I did. When it came to my education, the money always came together somehow, and while I’m very grateful for it, sometimes I wish they would have just told me what the real situation was. Your parents may not want to use money as a way to hamper your dream, even though going to a very expensive east coast school could very well be a huge burden on them and you.</p>

<p>Or they could just not want their baby girl leaving the nest =D</p>

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<p>You can look for architecture degree programs here: [NAAB:</a> ARCHITECTURE PROGRAMS](<a href=“http://www.naab.org/architecture_programs/]NAAB:”>http://www.naab.org/architecture_programs/)</p>

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<p>. . . Except that it is one of the best universities in the world. Have YOU ever been to rural Minnesota? Expecting that someone who is growing up there will already have personal knowledge of East Coast school bespeaks a certain cultural and SES mindset that isn’t helpful. </p>

<p>Thirty years ago, I basically WAS this kid – and I’m glad I ignored all the people who told me I couldn’t do it for about 100 good reasons. </p>

<p>I’d tell the OP to dream big but keep building the foundations under them. What does that mean? Max out your school. Do a class at one of MN’s good CCs if you can to prove to adcoms (and your dad) that you’re up for bigger challenges than your HS can throw at you. Bury the needle on the SAT, and see who can help you prep some, so you can be as ready as all these East Coast suburban kids (like mine). Run the NPC and ask your parents to help. (They say it is not the money, but many rural parents don’t understand FA). Take advantage of opportunities to demonstrate your maturity so they will be less concerned about the distance. And APPLY – even if you can’t make a trip to New Haven first. </p>

<p>Remember two things. First, you rarely will regret aiming high, even if you wind up some place else. Minnesota has some great colleges, and you’ll be better prepared for them too by pursuing this path. Second, it’s a long life. Even if you don’t get to Yale the first time, it probably won’t close before you are ready for grad school. </p>

<p>Signed,
SomeOldGuy who aimed high from his country HS, ended up at state school for money, but eventually got that Ivy terminal degree</p>

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<p>I wonder how he would feel if you were going to the East Coast but to a school he didn’t think of as quite so demanding. That would be telling as to what the true issue is here.</p>

<p>Since you have another year to apply, hopefully he will acclimate to the idea. You will be older then. You have worked hard and shouldn’t be any less prepared than anyone else for competitive schools. Hopefully you can negotiate applying to a mix and see where you get in. But do make yourself aware of relative costs and get the data from your mom so you can run those Net Price Calculators.</p>

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<p>You also need to consider whether you want to go for a 4 yr BA Arch (eg. Y) plus a Masters (where FA & merit aid are rare) or straight through a 5 yr BArch (eg. Cornell). The latter often require a portfolio when you apply as a fr, while at the former, you often apply to the Arch program during your soph year.</p>

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<p>When I meant that Yale is my dream school, I didn’t mean that I’d liked it as a kid. I meant that from the research I have done on it, that it seems amazing. They’re one of the top architectural schools in the country. I have been to the east coast before and my mom and I are taking a trip out there in a month to look at the colleges I’m interested in. I am also planning on applying to multiple colleges both here in Minnesota and on he east coast. We’re hoping he will come around more when I see where I’ve been accepted, and try to take him out there to see them. I know that Yale has very small chances at admission. Stanford has a smaller chance though, and they’ve sent me college letters. I know that Yale is very high reaching, and I’m not planning my future around getting in. I just mean that Yale has a lot of qualities that I like and it’s in the Northeast corner of the U.S. where I’d like to be. If I don’t end up on the east coast, I’ll probably stay in Minnesota. I don’t really have a preference for southern or western states.</p>

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<p>Okay… gotta stop you right there. </p>

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<p>Just because a college sends you letters means absolutely ZERO in terms of whether there is a chance they will admit you. All it means is that they got your address from someplace (because you took the PSAT in 10th grade maybe? or maybe some summer program or something? or signed up on their website?). The top schools pretty much all play this game where they woo you with marketing materials. They want as many students as possible to apply, but there is no change in the number of slots in the freshman class. But driving up the number of applications drives down their acceptance rate. Yale’s acceptance rate in 2013 was 6.72%. Round up to 7%. So for every 100 applicants (many, many, many of them with perfect grades, great SATs, great ECs, great recommendations, and great essays), they accepted 7 people. You need to understand that for colleges, this is a business. And those letters do not mean one thing. It does not mean they want you to ATTEND. It does mean they want you to apply – but NOT because they think anything special about whether they would accept your.</p>

<p>If you are going be serious about the college application process, you need to educate yourself. Being on CC is a great first step. But you need to understand a whole lot more than you do now. Starting now is really good. Spend time on the financial aid forum, maybe the one in College Admissions called Admissions Hindsight and Lessons learned, and SAT/ACT forums (some good prep tips out there). Also, I assume you are taking the PSAT in a month or two through your school. If you are not sure, talk to your Guidance Counselor to confirm that you are. And I suggest you study for it. If you can beat the MN PSAT cutoff, you have a chance at National Merit Finalist. You could find that beneficial for admissions purposes, and in some cases it has financial benefits when applying to some schools.</p>

<p>Don’t know if you have found this yet, but there is a forum out here for architecture majors. I would go read every post for the past few years on it if I were you. Not every opinion/comment is valid, of course, but it could give you some school ideas and tell you more about the challenges faced by architecture majors:</p>

<p>[Architecture</a> Major - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/architecture-major/]Architecture”>Architecture Major - College Confidential Forums) </p>

<p>SomeOldGuy is definitely right about your parents possibly not understanding financial aid. Lots of parents give reasons for not wanting to consider schools when finances are actually behind it. And don’t count on your high school guidance counselor to help with this, many of them aren’t too savvy on it and don’t want to get into those details with families. So you may need to ease your parents along on this, too. Educate yourself on what is in a typical FA package and what it really means, and consider how much debt you can and should take on (which is a significant issue given the employment statistics for architecture discussed above – and I notice you have not addressed those statistics in your posts yet). Run those net price calculators for every school you are considering.</p>

<p>Finally, develop a serious list of match and safety schools, any of which you would be okay attending. I know this is a conflict with your dad, but the odds are far, far higher that you will end up at one of those schools than at your “reach” schools (whatever they are). It is a good sign that your mom is taking you visiting. But listen up… do not just visit reach schools on your trip!!! Too many people spent their time visiting schools that have very small acceptance rates, and not nearly enough time visiting the schools they are actually likely to be admitted to (and can afford). Make your list carefully. Sure, visit Yale and maybe one other tippy-top “reachy” school. Then spend the rest of your time on schools that you are more likely to be accepted to. Your PSAT scores should be in hand by then, so those will give you some guidelines. Look at the SAT score ranges for the last accepted class, and assume a match is where you are around or a bit above the 50% mark on all your scores.</p>

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<p>Try and comvince your father but honestly you should give ur sat/act first and then choose the college you want to attend…</p>

<p>Its premature to decide a college to attend when you dont even know ur sat / act scores… You will have to give sat 2 for many colleges as well so let ur tests get through and then think about colleges…</p>

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<p>You’ve been given lots of good advice so far. Let me add this: if you happen to get a “golden ticket” and entrance into a school like Yale, then you can tell your dad that it didn’t happen b/c they were asleep at the switch. They have approx 96% graduation rate. Whom they admit, they graduate. The real issue is getting in.</p>

<p>Most “elite” schools have great the combination of highly capable students and great support resources – the vast majority of students graduate successfully.</p>

<p>If you google the grad rate at UMinn, you might be surprised. Heck, even see how many Freshmen return for their soph year.</p>

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<p>This is exactly right. A school like Yale wouldn’t admit you unless they believed you have the academic chops to succeed there, and they have a lot of experience making those judgments–more than your Dad has. And they’re almost invariably right, as evidenced by a graduation rate that approaches 100% (with the small percentage not graduating probably more often due to health or other personal issues than inability to do the work). Of course, they might very well think you have the academic chops to succeed there and NOT admit you, something that happens all the time because they have so many more well qualified applicants than they have places to fill. For that reason, it’s a serious mistake to get your heart set on a single super-selective school like Yale. It’s something to aspire to, but you need to come up with a list of 8 or 10 schools that you’d be happy to attend, of varying degrees of selectivity. </p>

<p>And you can’t really do that until you have SAT and/or ACT scores, which will give you a much better idea of whether the most selective schools are at all a realistic possibility. A school like Yale will be, at best, a very high reach no matter how high your SAT/ACT scores, but for the vast majority of college applicants it’s beyond a reach, it’s more like a pipe dream. So all the Yale talk is just idle speculation until you have more data to work with. </p>

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<p>No they are not. Not if you submit the ACT with Writing. Yale does require two SAT Subject Tests (your choice) for applicants submitting the SAT Reasoning Test.</p>

<p>[Standardized</a> Testing for Freshman Applicants | Yale College Admissions](<a href=“http://admissions.yale.edu/standardized-testing]Standardized”>http://admissions.yale.edu/standardized-testing)</p>

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<p>I agree with the others.</p>

<p>1) Tell your dad you would like to apply to Yale as you have investigated and think it a good match for you and that you don’t want to regret not trying.
2) Tell him the chances of you getting in are slim even if you have a 4.0.
3) If you do get into Yale, then say at that point you will along with your parents evaluate all the colleges you have gained admittance to and do a cost/benefit analysis and will discuss with them which college to attend.</p>

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<p>Exactly. This is the rational argument against the inexplicable “it’s too hard” objection.
If you present him with these facts, though, I think it is likely that you will discover that the real objection is something else. </p>

<p>I’m with SomeOldGuy: I see no reason not to dream big. But at the same time, you need to be realistic. Stanford sending you stuff means nothing: it is purely a marketing ploy. (Well, to be fair, they MAY be interested in increasing their geographical diversity by reaching out to populations that don’t usually apply. But that wouldn’t make getting in easier to any meaningful degree.) Apply to a good range of schools, and maximize your chances of getting in by doing really well on the SAT or ACT, taking a couple of SATIIs and getting good scores, maintaining your GPA, maximizing course rigor and showing intellectual initiative, and pursuing your ECs.</p>

<p>Your father MAY be worried about $$. Depending on income, it could well be cheaper for you to attend a school like Yale than your state flagship. That was certainly true for us.</p>

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<p>In all fairness, isn’t this the case for probably 90% of Yale applicants, including those on the east coast? They’ve heard it’s good and therefore it becomes a “dream.”</p>