<p>My D is a senior, a very focused student (4.0 uw GPA, AP scholar with distinction, NMSF, 35 ACT, 2310 SAT), who has labored all of these years under the idea that doing well in HS will "earn her a place" at a highly selective college. Her ECs are pretty solid: NHS (officer position), varsity swim team (lettered with several awards), band (lettered with many awards), active community volunteer. She understands none of this makes her a shoe-in at any school - the essays, LoRs, demographic info, etc,, can swing the admission decicion one way or the other.</p>
<p>Now that it's time to apply, we're struggling with how to get her to understand that while she may have "earned a place" at a highly selective school, we're likely not going to be able to afford the EFC since merit scholarships seem nearly nonexistant at these schools and we're in that middle income "dead zone" for need-based FA. We've always told her to reach for her dreams, but we don't want her dream school to weigh her (or us) down will insurmountable debt. Add in that she doesn't know what she wants to study (loves math, loves literature and writing, loves music - excels at all of them), and she has her heart set on moving away from home. We're in MN, and she's drawn a virtual ring of exclusion through all of the neighboring states. We've traveled far and wide to check out other areas of the country, just so she could see how she'd feel about being there for 4+years.</p>
<p>So I guess what I'm asking here is: how do we get her to temper her dreams with some reality and see that these very $$$ schools may not give her the best bang for her buck, espectially if she has no clear career path (e.g., med school, law, Wall St)? Also, her "ideal" school is mid-sized (6,000-10,000) - that seems to knock out a lot of great LACs she deems as "too small."</p>
<p>Boy, this sounds familiar. Mine felt she’d earned it, too, and it turned out she hadn’t. Or at least that’s the way she felt. Got into none of her reaches and some of the safeties thought they were being used so turned her down, too. Thank goodness she didn’t get into the reaches because I was unwilling to spend that kind of money for prestige. She ended up with a gap year, which was very rewarding, but she still thinks she belongs at P.</p>
<p>She’ll probably do excellent work where she is this year because she is an excellent student and above average in her classes, and I can afford it, but she wonders why she worked so hard in high school. My answer is, “it’s obvious, so you could find schools that would pay a lot of money to have you and where you would thrive.”</p>
<p>She still doesn’t know what she wants to major in. What she told me the last two years she’s not now pursuing. She’s following a couple old interests and one new one. This is not a bad problem to have, as long as the child understands she has 4 years of support. However, I do think AOs hold this variety of interests against students. I find it an asset in my students, as it makes class discussion much more lively. But it doesn’t fit the profile for success that AOs have. </p>
<p>Because she doesn’t have a set path and does have a wide range of interests that means you can focus on fit more than worrying about finding a school that offers specific courses. I see this as a positive! Students often enter college thinking they know what they want to do or to study but it is generally based on their own limited experience of the world. To me, college is supposed to be about broadening one’s thinking and opportunities. </p>
<p>Merit aid is not going to come because she is going down a certain career path – it is going to come because that school wants her very badly for her stats or reasons of diversity or something like that.</p>
<p>Edit: i’m not sure my paragraph above is what you were asking now that i reread your post. And i’m not sure what it is you are asking actually. Are you looking for suggestions of specific schools where she might get merit aid? Or how to help her be happy if she is not accepted at a school as selective as she might have hoped? </p>
<p>Coming from MN and wanting to travel further might give her a little bit of an edge. How about checking out schools like U Miami (FL), Wake Forest, U Rochester, etc. She’d likely get decent merit aid and they are respected schools she can be proud of. FWIW, my middle son had similar stats, etc, and loves U Roc… he’s a junior there this year.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your replies. @SDonCC - I want her to expand her thinking to exactly what @Creekland is saying – to consider some schools that might “value” her more (i.e., give her more mreit aid) than those schools with more prestige. I worry she measures her academic worth by how “acceptable” she is at highly selective schools, instead of focusing on fit. Her line is, “I may not know what I want to study, but why not figure that out at the best school I can get into?” My response: Because of $$$! </p>
<p>@Creekland - Duke is on her list and Davidson fell off (too small), but Wake Forest is an interesting suggestion. As to UMiami, might be a tough sell as we have some serious Gator blood in our family ;)) And I like the idea of U Roc - Eastman SoM might get her attention. Thanks!!</p>
<p>I see nothing wrong with being uncertain in path at this stage of life. Most kids who know exactly what they want to do will change their minds in a year or two. You can’t expect 17 or 18 year olds to promise not to change their minds - and those who are open to options will probably end up with the better outcome in the end. Your daughter is right, “why not figure it out at the best school I can get into?” is a fine concept. Of course, your response is 100% right too, “because I can’t afford it.” </p>
<p>Her indecision is not the point. The affordability is the point. If she was dead set on medicine, or law, or mathematical modeling of evolutionary biology, it still wouldn’t be affordable. You need to be clear and honest with her about that. By trying to put it on her that “you’re too undecided for me to spend that money” you are putting the fault on her - which just isn’t fair.</p>
<p>@VSGPeanut101 - I am totally fine with her being undecided. I was when I went to school - changed majors 4 ttimes. I understand that and want her to explore various disciplines. We’re trying to crack that idea in her head that she needs to go to a very selective school to become successful.</p>
<p>My sense is that trying to convince her that because she has “no” clear career path she should pursue “lesser” colleges would likely cause resentment rather than understanding. Only a relatively small percentage of seniors have that career sense. Even at the most selective colleges a large percentage of freshman have such a sense. In practice some 1/2 apply undecided and of the other 1/2 1/2 change major before they graduate, Only through maturity and experience do most young adults get that career sense.</p>
<p>There are a handful of top notch private universities that offer merit aid to candidates such as your daughter. As a merit finalist she has additional chances for landing a substantial merit scholarship.</p>
<p>@Lizardly - I know! So many great small LACs we think would be good fits (we visited quite a few, here and out east - had to scrap the west coast visits because of schedule), but now she won’t even apply because she thinks they are “too small.” BTW - Tulane looks like it might be on the “too big” side, at roughly 13,500 total (G & UG). She already has some schools in that range. DO they give good merit FA?</p>
<p>@fogcity - we are in no way emphasizing to her that her lack of career path should factor into where she should go. That is a “behind the scenes” concern of ours that we are grappling with. We’re just wanting her to include more options that may not be as prestigous but might offer more FA, because she may very well want to go to grad school, and coming out of UG with a mountain of debt is not a good plan. As is probably obvious, she is our first kid, and this college application process is so different from when we went to school. Just hoping some other parents out there have found an effective way to steer their ambitious kids to good schools that might not be on every high-schieving student’s radar. Her GC has suggested some, but we’re always open to more options and ideas.</p>
<p>If you like Wake Forest, also look at University of Richmond. Similar in many ways, but UR offers more merit. Her stats make her competitive for Washington & Lee’s Johnson Scholarship (full tuition, room & board awarded to nearly 10% of the class), although if she found Davidson too small, W&L probably would be as well.</p>
<p>Would she consider a women’s college? She’d be a strong candidate for merit $, and if you look at schools in a consortium then there are opportunities to take classes at coed schools very easily.</p>
<p>I would consider places like Case Western, Rochester, Tulane, Wash U, Emory…all of which with her stats will put her in the ballpark of potentially high merit aid. My son (whose stats are less than your Ds) got lots of merit aid from these schools. He ended up at Tulane with a full-tuition merit scholarship and seems (so-far at least) to have settled into a groove of happy college freshman.</p>
<p>@yaupon - thank you for the suggestions. Looks like we have some more research to do tonight! She may well have already considered these schools and not told us, but I’ll ask. You’re right, tho - W&L is tiny-tiny. Way too small for her (smaller than her senior class). And the topic of an all-women college (strangely enough) hasn’t come up.</p>
<p>Be aware - it’s highly unlikely to be a student at U of Rochester and take classes at Eastman. You said she “loves music” - what does she want to do with it at the university level.</p>
<p>@vandyeyes - thanks. Wash U is on her list, which is bigger than Tulane, so I will suggest she look into Tulane, particularly since it’s been mentioned twice now in this short thread. And congrats to your S - glad to hear he is happy with his decision.</p>
<p>@jeannemar - she is considering a minor in music. Wants a school with jazz and percussion ensemble opportunties. If there is a local drum corp nearby, all the better. Since I am unfamiliar with URoch and don’t know much about their degree programs, we obviously need to do more research. But she is in AP Music theory, has had a ton of theory exams through piano (mostly passed with distinction), many superior ratings on solo/ensemble performances at state competitions. Wants music in her life - just doesn’t want to “gig” for her main income (too many horror stories from music majors, I guess).</p>
<p>Feel free to join the music major forum for more ideas - there are plenty of folks with music minors or just interested in pursuing musical interests as well.</p>
<p>In your opening statement there was no mentioning of SOMedicine that your D would be of interest. It makes a lot of difference if med schools are in the consideration. She may be qualify for combined BS/MD programs instead of the normal 4 year colleges. Please clarify that.</p>
<p>OTOH, she may be interested in U of Chicago for math and music dual major programs and U of Chicago is a need blind school.</p>
<p>@Yaupon - I guess I’m too new to reply to PMs, but wanted to let you know your advice is greatly appreciated and exactly the type of feedback I was looking for when I started this thread. This college quest is so overwhelming, and I don’t want to rain on my D’s parade or take away any of her hopes and dreams. Quite the opposite, I want her to realize her full potential and help create as many opportunities for her as I can (that’s what parents do, right?). My worry is that she’ll miss out on some great college options by looking too high or too low and not enough in the middle. So thank you for offering some guidance.</p>