How do musicians make money?

College Majors Music Major
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A post in another thread from @bridgenail got me thinking that a thread about how musicians make money might be helpful to those of you sending your kids off to music schools. This is based on my son’s experience, but I’m hopeful that @bridgenail and others whose kids have graduated and are making a living from their music might add to this.

  1. Private students. To quote @bridgenail, “Almost all performing artists teach in some capacity. It’s your bread and butter.” My son typically has about 8-10 private students at any given time. He limits the number so that it doesn’t unduly interfere with his other music activities, but it provides a nice base of income. He likes his students, enjoys teaching and takes pride in his students’ progress.

  2. Public performance. My son tours in the U.S. and internationally with his own groups and as a sideman with other groups. And he generally has a steady stream of gigs when he’s back in town in NYC. Live performance has come back strong after two years of pandemic. My son is currently on a west coast tour with his trio - first of 17 shows tonight.

  3. Private events. These tend to be well paying even if not all that musically satisfying. My son will do some private events if it’s with other musicians he really likes. As with public performance, the pandemic shut down in-person private events for a while, but they’re coming back.

  4. Accompaniment. My son has accompanied in a variety of settings, including with dance groups and musical theater classes, and even did about 25 shows as a sub in the pit orchestra for a Broadway show (shortly before the pandemic hit and shut down Broadway). He said it was a good experience but not really for him. Playing the same music every night isn’t what he wants, though a pit orchestra gig for a successful show can be a stable and well paying gig over an extended period of time.

  5. Recording and CD sales. My son has recorded as a session player for other people’s groups - he gets paid a fee for the session. He has also recorded his own groups, which he pays for, but then he has CDs to sell at his shows. He also sells them online, but most of his CD sales are at the live shows. Most venues will allow him to keep 100% of the CD sales, in contrast to online sales, where I think he gets about 50%, maybe less. Something to keep in mind if you go to a show you like and want to put a little more money in the musicians’ pockets - and to take the music with you.

  6. Online music. Particularly during the pandemic, my son and many of his music friends took to online performance. My son posted a fair number of livestreams for free just as a way of staying in touch with friends, family and followers. But for some venue sponsored livestreams he provided links to his Venmo and PayPal accounts and listeners could send tips. Some of my son’s friends have established Patreon accounts to help support their online music, or have been able to monetize online music through subscriptions on platforms such as Twitch. My son has a few music friends who have turned their online music into a pretty steady income stream.

  7. Composition royalties. To be honest, I’m not sure exactly how it works, but my son joined ASCAP and gets checks periodically for royalties on his music compositions. It’s not a lot at this point, but it’s something. And hopefully will grow over time.

  8. Busking. Busking in the park can actually bring in a fair amount of money on a good day. I always make a point of putting something in the hat for musicians I hear in the park. During the pandemic in particular, there were some really great musicians out busking on nice days, including my son’s trio on occasion.

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Until I read the depth of your post, I was going to reply: “Simple. Just get a few lads named John, Paul, George, and Ringo in your band, and you might do ok.”

Then I read your post and genuinely appreciated the advice. D2 is very musically inclined and, although she’s several years away from college apps, this is great advice! She’s already composing her own songs at a very young age, and Daddy couldn’t be more proud.

Thank you for posting. I will keep this in mind.

ETA: best of luck to DS for the gig tonight and thereafter!

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Thank you for the post, which is very interesting and useful.

I do know a small number of very good musicians who make a living as software engineers. That is of course a very different approach to making a living. Two people I know have retired as software engineers to become musicians (they had already saved enough to not need to make money anymore).

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Yes, as others have pointed out from time to time, those who are trained in music can thrive and succeed in a number of fields. I do think there is a nexus in particular between music skills and software skills. Some of my son’s friends from the Columbia-Juilliard program were computer science majors and have navigated back and forth between software jobs and music performance. And non-music paths are definitely open to music majors. But there are viable music paths too. My son commented to me recently that he and his music friends didn’t go into music expecting to make a lot of money. They did it for the love of the music. But they do need to make enough money to support themselves, and they have been able to do that, even through the pandemic.

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This is it. It’s the love of something (music, math, languages etc) that is the essence of what really matters.

Everything else will follow.

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@jazzpianodad - I share my D’s situation bc I would have liked to have known this information. And I comment on here bc I’m surprised sometimes by unchallenged statements like…I know a musician that is unhappy…so don’t get a music degree. Trust me, I know lots of miserable business people scraping by…and I would never blame their degree choice.

Also I have tried to be honest about my D’s “success”. She is pretty much a “middle class performer”…meaning some of her peers are above and some are below her. She has friends in opera that have made their US and European debuts, been in Opera News, have agents and are hired out for 24 months in advance. She has a close friend on Broadway now in the Harry Potter show. She also has friends who didn’t like the grind (or weren’t getting hired enough…that happens) and decided to get more traditional jobs (or start families) but they still keep active in music at some local gigs and/or their church. Some made the decision to step away after a year…others after 10 years. It is certainly not an “easy” career choice, so some caution is advised. Still people who have stepped away because they were not getting hired enough or just didn’t like the entrepreneurial aspect of it, all seem to be living productive, content lives.

AND most importantly…my D knows no music graduate that is unemployed, depressed and living in their family basement with absolutely no job prospects thinking…if only I had gotten an accounting degree…lol.

The cut and paste from my original post is below for a middle class performer making a middle class income.

She earns her income as:

a teacher (private studio, private teacher for talented students at 2 high schools, co-runs a Sat program at the city music school and is a teaching artist for summer programs at theaters) - she did not do an education degree but has an MM so she can teach. Almost all performing artists teach in some capacity. It’s your bread and butter.

a performer (opera, MT and theater) in her city and regional work

as talent for commercial work (on-camera industrial, commercial and voice over work)

She was able to quit her “survival” job about a year ago after building up her network and business. She is hired 6 to 12 months out on a regular basis.

Being talented and smart are important. But you also need to be highly organized, entrepreneurial and able to hussle. AND being multi-talented helps a great deal. You can get more work that way. My D’s on-camera work pays very well…and was not something she anticipated doing…but she heard about it from friends when she was “hungry”…got herself an agent…and made it happen. She did stumble, fall, embarrass herself…change agents and did better the second time.

If some day, it all ends…I’m sure she would do well in sales. She seems unable to “give up”.

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My kid is finishing doctorate; has been teaching undergrads for two years. Dealing with some uncertainty but worth it.

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I truly belive this: there is truly nothing compared to when the old rubber meets the road! It’s scary, exhiliarating and every small success feels like a triumph. It is really the best of times and the worst of times…but it will make your kid! No fear. She’ll be fine.

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One other path I see a lot of musicians working here is starting/running non profits (performance, arts, outreach, etc). I keep telling my own kids that you need good communication, interpersonal and organizational skills regardless of path.

The comp sci/music angle is interesting to me because that is what path my college junior is on. He is looking at a number of grad school paths (I think lol). Tech skills are definitely good to have!

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@bridgenail, I started this thread because I saw your post and thought, that’s information I would have liked to have known. As a parent, it was scary to think of my son committing to a music career at the age of 18. I agree that students who train in music can succeed in other career paths if that’s what they ultimately choose. But music can be a viable career path too.

Your description of your daughter as a “middle class performer” fits my son pretty well. He’s not winning five Grammys like Jon Batiste, but he has a steady stream of gigs and is making enough to support himself and his music. And like your daughter, he seems unable to give up. (Also, like your daughter, he’s only 29, so who knows what they’ll end up accomplishing.)

One thought on your comment about the importance of being able to “hustle”. I understand and agree, but I’d also make the point that there are many ways to hustle and that it’s not necessarily an innate ability. My son is not a hustler by nature, but he has taught himself to persevere in creating networks, developing relationships with venues (many of which are run by people who are also in it for the love of the music), and publicizing himself to be able to draw an audience for his gigs. It’s been more of a learned set of skills than anything he was born with.

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This is GREAT!! All music major path parents should read / follow.

After very discouraging pandemic years in music / performance field, my son who is in his 3rd year of BM seems very thrive with local music connections which started from “private events”. He signed up with two agents. He gets performance / recording gigs, not only jazz and is juggling his school work and part-time job but he sounds like being very active and expanding his area. He doesn’t seem interested in going for MM in jazz yet but he wants to stick around in his college town to establish his career in many kinds of music.

According to my son, he eventually will teach younger students. However, he wants to take an advantage of being a full time student who is supported by parents now to get going on his professional music career path as far as he can before finishing his BM. He likes touring (and he is a pretty good traveler) but he appreciates local arts. He might be looking into getting settled as a “middle-class” musician.

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Just to clarify: no fear here. Uncertainty does not mean fear. Uncertainty can refer to having many choices, a good thing. Transition points are a time when everything is possible- but nothing has been decided.

ps And yes COVID has been a huge factor in delaying planning.

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I love this thread, it is very promising and gives a lot of hope to a parent who will possibly have two kids in performing arts.
Just a note on my S’s primary teacher. She is mostly a teacher and has a PhD in performance. She teaches at two local universities, teaches my son at a Saturday program for advanced middle and high schoolers and has private students. She also performs, conducts and works with adults. So even teachers hustle but she seems to have a lovely life in a very high COL city.

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While not a musician myself, I know a broad cross section of musicians. Not counting the pop/rock stars, most have to have a bunch of side hustles that ad up to a living, doing almost all of the items in the original list simultaneously. I know a great musician who is a school music teacher by day, does private lessons, public gigs, private gigs and events, etc. But he’s gradually backed off the private gigs and lessons because he can make more money as a music-related social media personality which led to more lucrative online lessons for distant people and eventually the ability to sell subscriptions to prerecorded online classes. But it was on-stop hustle to get to that point.

I know numerous students who have graduated from Juilliard, Curtis, Berklee, etc. who end up taking entry level jobs unrelated to music within a year of graduating. Initially those other jobs are to fund their pursuit of music but often it becomes the primary thing.

It’s an amazing road for those who love it, but a hard one for most.

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This post and comments have given me so much hope. It’s very possible my D25 will go for music. I have a super employable degree in respiratory therapy and can literally go to just about any hospital in the US (with proper state listening) and get a living wage job - comfortably middle class. It terrifies me to think my child wouldn’t have that. In my respiratory cohort was a Juilliard grad. She spent 20 years hobbling together paid gigs and worked non music jobs to get by. Teaching wasn’t for her at all but it is something my daughter is interested in. It’s also great to hear all the opportunities that exist today that didn’t for my college friend.

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I thought I would add a few other comments…and apologize for spelling “hustle” wrong…how embarrassing…I don’t often edit carefully…

Here are offers my D has passed on:

Law school offer from her UG -due to GPA, the law schools offered top students an admit “opportunity” without taking the test (LSAT?). They still had to interview. I was quite impressed. My D rolled her eyes at it.

Arts administrator - the first year or two out of college, an opportunity with a local theater to work on staff came up. She interviewed. It got very serious…and then she pulled out. It would interfere with performing. However she knows that she could consider that in the future. You don’t need a degree here. Simply being in the industry is experience enough for many…but maybe not top theaters or operas.

Manager at one of her survival jobs - her manager spoke with her about an opening to see if she would be interested. The answer was “no”.

Church work (unless one off gigs) - my understanding is this is pretty lucrative. My D does a little (she was not raised religious so she’s not as well-versed as others). She has been asked to do more of it…but it’s never at a great time. Some people really work this angle and can make good money here.

Also:

She did NOT want to teach. She didn’t even take pedagogy in college. I rolled my eyes and bit my tongue. She got out of school, had a survival job and auditioned with some success. But someone mentioned her name to a small music school that was desperately looking for a teacher…so she gave it a shot…buying pedagogy books and meeting with friend who teach for advice. It was a low stakes job with beginners…so it was a good place to start. AND she liked it and the money. She got advice from friends on how to get students and started calling music teachers at schools, putting flyers in coffee shops, networking…and it rolled from there. To her surprise, she really likes it and works hard now to increase her skills.

At the end of high school, I would have considered my D quite “bad” at self-promotion and networking. She sneered at it (probs bc she was afraid). Funny thing…once you become desperate…you have to decide what makes you more uncomfortable…self-promotion or failure. And she started looking at it more and more as a “business” (which a lot of schools help with now) so she followed the “rules” of promoting herself and networking. She is very “discipline” and a bit of a “rule follower” so she does it….and does it well. She uses a lot of social media to “talk about herself” and has a website that she keeps updated.

She does have peers (more talented than her) that really dislike the networking and self-promotion part. They don’t like social media. She notes that they get called less than her. And, the teaching part is really important. If you really dislike teaching…it could be rough.

Again hope this helps.

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@citivas, there’s no doubt that a music career is a hard road, but it can be a very rewarding one. My son and his friends have chosen this road because music is their life and their love and defines who they are. My son has said to me that if he ever gets to the point where he views music as just a job, it will probably be time to do something else. I can’t imagine him ever getting to that point. But for those who don’t have a real passion for the music, finding another career path and keeping music as an avocation rather than a vocation might be the better way to go. I know many musicians who have followed that model too.

@bridgenail, as they say, necessity is the mother of invention. Self-promotion did not come naturally to my son either, and still doesn’t. But when it’s a choice between self-promotion and failure, there’s really no choice. As for teaching, that is something that has come more naturally to my son. He had some students even when he was in high school and he invests in and seems to connect with his students in a way that is rewarding for both. The teaching part is important. Though figuring out how to limit the teaching to a level that doesn’t interfere with performance is also important. My son is fortunate that his students are understanding of his need to arrange lessons around his performing schedule.

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Hello. Great topic. It is nice to see what waits at the other end of college. S has many jazz classmates who are making a living with music. Some were pretty much doing it as they were in college. S only ramped up building his work network gradually and more so after graduation. Some of the graduates are re-entering school as grad students, either to have professorial options or some other reason. It seems like being a quality musician will get you invited into some groups/networks. Being present and available and in the loop with people is great. Subbing opportunities lead to more contacts and so forth.

S, in the DFW area, has a pretty standard portfolio of private lesson teaching, performances, and a Sunday church gig. He started by working at a Music Academy store in a strip mall and had about 30 students. He then went private and has about 12 students, but sees twice the hourly rate. He has some repeat gigs and some that spring up randomly, such as weddings and corporate events. There are a few corporate event services where you can sign up with them and get called up from a pool of musicians to perform at various events.

S notes that the DFW area is pretty good in that the number of opportunities is great, and the pay rates are also good. When he does play a gig, if it is something his friends threw together, it might be around $100-$150 for the show, but his corporate or other nice gigs are often $250 to $400 per show. One gig paid for him to fly to Miami and stay in a hotel and pay $500 for the show, but the travel time kept him away from other gigs that overall would have generated the same total revenue over the same time period. His private lesson teaching is $50/hr, and he can teach a few instruments, which is great for teaching families with more than 1 student in them. With the leveling up in the privates lessons (less time per dollar) and the increase in gig quality/pay, he is able to survive and accumulate some now.

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@GoForth, it’s great to hear that your son and his friends are doing well with their music! Your post resonates with my son’s experience, including the ability to ramp up his teaching rates over time and to get higher quality and better paying gigs.

Does your son do any touring? When my son first started touring, it was often not much better than a break even proposition, after paying the band and travel expenses. For some tours, the only thing that made them profitable were the additional revenue from CD sales. And he almost certainly could have made more money had he stayed in NYC. But he loves traveling and sharing his music with new audiences, and the more tours he’s done, the more financially successful they’ve been. Of course, Covid shut everything down for a while, and it hit just as he was really building some traction, but he’s been fortunate to be able to pick up where he left off as live music has come back.

He’ll be back out in your area in November - the same venue where we met when he played there a few years ago. Maybe I’ll see you again there. :slight_smile:

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@jazzpianodad Our area is now Phoenix, AZ, instead of northern IL. S stays in DFW. I think S will tend towards limited (or perhaps zero) touring. It is easier for him at this time to stay near his home and tend to his students and local gigs. He is not so much part of a tour-worthy group. If he did want to tour, there would be some options such as the Glenn Miller band, in which there is currently a bassist who I believe S knows. Travel can be hard - there is a part of your day that is used up just for travel. When I travel for work, I feel removed from people I would normally be hanging out with and from the things I am familiar with, in a way that subtracts from my experience. I think S might be somewhat like that too.

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