<p>I'm going to be an undergraduate at the University of Chicago come the fall, and I'm generally a forward thinking person. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not obsessing over this by any means, but I am just briefly thinking about what it will take to get into a law school like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. </p>
<p>Obviously a stellar academic record will be a big factor, but Chicago's GPA's tend to trend lower if I'm not mistaken. Does the rigor of an undergraduate institution come into play in the app process?</p>
<p>Also, what is year is best to begin prepping for the LSAT? What are some strategies to spread that process out and maximize potential?</p>
<p>Finally, what kind of connections does one need to build? What type of professors/mentors will be the best recommendation writers? Should one reach out to the admissions department at the law school's expressing interest before even applying as people often do in the undergraduate college process?</p>
<p>First of all, be aware that the very top tier law schools typically prefer applicants with some form of life/work experience after undergrad. Harvard is your best bet for going straight to law school because they accept a larger class than most comparable law schools and are more numbers-driven, meaning life experience is less important. Getting into HLS is as easy as having a strong GPA, rocking the LSAT, and a having a strong EC record (complete with internships and some campus leadership). Yale is substantially more difficult - if you want to go to YLS straight out of undergrad, I suggest you begin working on your cure for cancer asap.</p>
<p>Your undergrad institution won’t matter very much. Basically, if HLS and YLS have reason to believe that your school’s GPA trend lower, you might be able to get in with a GPA in the lower quartile of your entering class, but you better be sure that you are in the GPA range of the preceeding year’s class.</p>
<p>Regarding the LSAT: if you’re serious about acing it, start some light prep work late in your sophomore year, then get a bit more serious in fall of your junior year. Take a prep course late in your junior year, study hard that summer, and take it in October of your senior year (unless you feel good enough to go for June).</p>
<p>My golden rule for recommendations: One prof in your major (probably either your advisor or someone you’ve taken numerous classes with), one prof outside your major (once again, with someone you’ve worked a lot with), and one professional reference (try scoring an internship with someone important and building a relationship).</p>
<p>One final tip (more aimed at YLS): Yale has a very academic culture. If that’s where you want to go, do undergrad research in your major and try to present it at a conference or get it published in a journal. Prove that you are a scholar and you will greatly increase your chances.</p>
<p>Know many people at Yale who came straight through; yes, it’s tough, but not along the lines of curing cancer (as a figure of speech).</p>
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<p>I don’t think UG matters for HLS, but it definitely matters for YLS and SLS.</p>
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<p>Not really sure the distinction is substantive along the lines of major vs. non-major rec. It’s more like you should get a rec from someone who has taught you at least two courses, or from the prof who knows you work the best. These criteria just happen usually to fall in the “major” you did in college.</p>
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<p>Maybe, maybe not. It’s very hard to do those things, and I really don’t think it’ll greatly improve your chances if you did do those things. At the end of the day, decisions at YLS are made by faculty members. Whether you got published into some random undergraduate journal doesn’t really stand for much. Yes, you could try publishing into a highly respectable journal, but that’s just not happening as an undergraduate. And even if that did, you’re still not looking at a big enough difference for YLS (IMO) and you’re probably going to be looking for a Ph.D in the field rather than a J.D.</p>
<p>Re post #2. Can you cite a source for any of that information? It’s contrary to my own experience. </p>
<p>It’s not hard to go directly from college to law school. Lots of people take time off. I personally think it’s a very good thing to do. However, it’s certainly not necessary. Indeed, the truth is that 1-2 years of work experience, with an exception for community service like the Peace Corps or Teach for America, boosts your chances for admission very, very little. To help much you need 5+ years of work experience. The only one of the top 14 law schools that cares a lot about work experience is Northwestern. While it helps more there than at other top law schools, there ARE people who get directly from undergrad. </p>
<p>Reality is that a LOT of the people who take a year or two off between college and law school actually were admitted during their senior year and deferred. This includes most of the Rhodes, Marshall, Watson, Fullbright, Gates, etc. scholars who choose to go on to law school. Others went through college in 3 years and wanted to have 3 years worth of grades when applying or had weak freshman year gpa’s and wanted senior year grades to count. It’s the extra year of grades, not the year of work experience, that matters. </p>
<p>Harvard is more numbers oriented than Stanford and Yale, but is NOT more numbers oriented than CCN, etc. </p>
<p>I’ve never heard of that rule for LORs–and not a one of the successful applicants I know to Harvard and Yale law school followed it. </p>
<p>I’ve also never heard of anyone in the bottom quartile of their class at any college getting into either Harvard or Yale Law School. </p>
<p>What you need to do is (1) get a high gpa; (2) get a high LSAT; (3) participate in at least some ECs and make a meaningful contribution to at least one of them; (4) write an outstanding personal statement if you want Yale and a very good one if you want Harvard; (5) sort of related–it can help if you have a valid reason for going to law school or an area of law in which you can show a demonstrated interest; (6) a track record of solid community service can help and (7) get to know 2 profs well enough that they can actualy say something meaningful about you. It’s an extra bonus if they can say that you participated a lot in discussions during class. </p>
<p>Finally, realize that Yale and Stanford are really rather random. You really can’t do anything that will guarantee your admission to either, from what I’ve seen.</p>
<p>My statements about HLS are based on what I’ve heard from friends who have gone there, so I’ll freely admit I don’t have firsthand experience. As for what I said about YLS, that’s based on my own personal experience as a student there and on what I’ve heard from others.</p>
<p>Obviously my statement about getting into YLS right out of undergrad was an exaggeration.</p>
<p>At YLS, undergrad institution matters less and less the more time you put between law school and your undergrad career, although I have met people who went straight from a mediocre state school into YLS.</p>
<p>As for my rule on recommendations, obviously the point I stressed was the emphasis on a prof you’ve worked with at length who can speak to your abilities. I have heard from YLS profs (who, as pointed out, are the ones reading the applications) that letters from diverse areas demonstrate broad interests and proficiency in interdisciplinary thought. That’s the method I used (successfully) and that I’ve advised many people to use, all of whom made it to very elite law schools. I’m by no means saying this is the only way, but in my experience it has been very successful.</p>
<p>And finally regarding my advise on scholarship, I have heard from three YLS professors that they look very highly on students who were published or presented papers while undergrads. While that’s obviously not enough to make it an iron law, it does give some indication of the YLS values. Getting published certainly elevates an undergrad applicant from others in his or her peer group and shows his or her ability to complete demanding work at an advanced level. I’m not saying it makes you a sure thing (frankly, nothing you do will make you a sure thing at YLS), but I firmly believe that it helps. Yes, it is a difficult thing to accomplish - that’s the point. Achieving something difficult sets you apart. I suggest that you work with a professor on your research - find a mentor who will coauthor with you and your chances of making it into a big journal greatly increase. Even if you just get in an undergrad jounral, that’s still more than the vast majority of undergrads ever accomplish.</p>
<p>Chicago2014 - for info a bit more specific to UChicago search for a thread by CUE7 entitled: Making Chicago Pre-Law More Transparent. Good Luck ay Chicago!</p>
<p>first off, don’t go to u-chicago for ugrad if law school is your target and you will take on debt. u-grad + law school debt is brutal. you would be better served by a flagship state school as u-grad matters minimally.</p>
<p>other than that, GPA. seriously, GPA. the LSAT comes into play junior year, so you freshman/sophomore year aim to get as close to 4.0 as possible. the median at the likes of YLS/HLS is 3.9, or put another way, 9 A’s for every 1 B. this means you should use ratemyprofessor.com extensively and avoid all GPA killer classes. it is relatively easy to figure out where to get A’s and what prof’s will be tough as nails. last bit of advice is play to your academic strengths. if you are talented at math, focus on math etc etc.</p>
<p>It’s this part of agc’s LOR advice that I disagree with most. I know one heck of a lot of students who got into top law schools who did not submit a professional rec. I just don’t think you need “an internship with someone important” to get into a top law school. I think it’s misleading to suggest that this is the “golden” rule of LORs. </p>
<p>Yes, if you’ve been out of college for a substantial amount of time, getting a LOR from an employer is probably helpful. However, it’s not necessary to “score” an internship with “someone important” to get into law school.</p>
<p>I never said it was “the” golden rule, I said it was “my” golden rule. I also never said that an internship is necessary, I only said that it helps. Demonstrating that you’ve made some positive contribution to society outside of academia is important because most lawyers will make their contributions outside of academia as well. It’s important to note that I only suggest taking this course of action if you’ve built a relationship with the person you worked for so that he or she can speak to your abilities, thus giving you a letter that says something beyond “this applicant is a strong student…”</p>
<p>Also, being able to read and write really helps. You won’t believe how often they expect you to read stuff in law school! It’s like being back in undergrad English, with smaller font sizes.</p>
<p>while those skills are great IN law school, ironically enough, they will not help you get ADMITTED to a large degree. the important stat is GPA, not major. </p>
<p>if you are a “math person”, it is better to still focus on math courses rather than take english courses to impress the admissions committee. keep in mind math/science courses develop your logical analysis, which is also useful in law school :).</p>
<p>The LSAT is also important, and it contains a reading comprehension section and a writing sample. I remember the reading section asking you to identify main ideas and to read for content and meaning; if you fail those two sections completely, there’s no way you’re getting to Harvard or Yale. You might get into the Unaccredited University of California, but J.D.s from UUC aren’t respected outside of strip clubs and Pokemon-themed websites. Trust me on that one. :D</p>
<p>The personal essay is extremely important, especially at Yale. It should convey passion and intellectual curiosity. I am a YLS graduate whose LSAT was good, but below the YLS median. I am convinced that the essay made the difference in being admitted.</p>
<p>@OP, I’m also a UChi 2014 with a serious interest in Law School down the road.</p>
<p>In response to post #8: Go to UChi. You got accepted to the UofC precisely because you’re intellectually curious and you aren’t a grade grubber. That’s what Law Schools want. In my experience, grade grubbers are the kids who work for their grades, and don’t really have a high level of intellectual skill. And, in Law School especially, a great work ethic can only get you so far. Probably like you, I care about my grades, but when I do poorly on something I learn my lesson and work hard the next time. But do I really obsess about my grades? No. In the past 4-5 years, there have been exactly two (2) UChicago graduates who graduated with a 4.0 (I do have a source). Go to Chicago, get a great education that will prepare you for a top law school and rock them. I would guess that anything over a 3.6 at Chicago is going to be competitive at T-14 Law Schools. As well, that GPA will put you on the Dean’s List and probably in Phi Beta Kappa, if that stuff is important to you. Of course you’re going to need a high LSAT score, just like me, but that’s for later. </p>
<p>Work hard, learn a lot, and enjoy UChicago. That’s what I’m planning to do. And if I don’t get into a T-14 school right out of Chicago, perhaps I’ll work for a year or two, or maybe go on to grad school (PhD perhaps) and then start working towards a JD. </p>
<p>But after all, UChicago CAPS is a great office that helps to get a lot of UChicago graduates into top Law, Business, Medical, Engineering, Social Service, and Grad schools.</p>
<p>I think the whole lot of you are overestimating the degree of UChicago’s grade deflation. From what I know from my friends there, the school really isn’t grade deflated these days, and many of them manage to pull 3.8+s all the time.</p>
<p>I also don’t understand why UChicago students feel like they’re some special flower, like they don’t care about their grades (or don’t grade grub or whatever). That’s just a silly generalization that, I guess, makes UChicago admits feel better after the sting of a Harvard rejection (or its equivalent). I know many grade-grubbers at Chicago. I also know that they had something like a 36% admit rate a few years ago. There can’t be that many special little flowers.</p>
<p>Choosing to attend UChicago is going the hard way. Law schools don’t care much about how rigorous the grading curve is. For instance, a undergrad with 3.9 & 175 at UChicago and an undergrad with 3.9 & 175 at Brown both apply to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford. Who is the law school going to take? Probably both. What if the law school can only choose one? Then it may go either way depending on internship, recs, etc. However, it’s a lot easier to get a 3.9 at a school like Brown where the median GPA is a 3.6 compared to UChicago where the median GPA is 3.2.</p>