<p>First of all all students receive a diploma from Columbia University. The classes are mixed with students from the different colleges:Barnard,Columbia and SEAS. Barnard math major is at Columbia.Recent test in Columbia math class:Barnard student A- ,class average with many Columbia students 62:. THere are quite a few Barnard students who applied and got into Barnard and Columbia and picked Barnard. There are also many Barnard students who did not apply to COlumbia who did not desire to attend Columbia with the Core but wanted Barnard’s great writing/english program. Most Columbia and Barnard students do not have an issue with class enrollments.</p>
<p>
lolwut? The classes are mixed with students from CC, SEAS, GS, and Barnard. Barnard students don’t receive diplomas from Columbia University, but rather from the Trustees of Columbia University. Either way, I’m not too miffed with the status quo, as Barnard does not have access to Columbia career offices for recruiting, have different transcripts, and have a far less cohesive school identity. The statement about many Barnard students who got into both Columbia and Barnard is demonstrably false; there are some, but they are the exception rather than the norm. You also neglected to mention that many Barnard students did indeed want to go to Columbia but were unable to get in.</p>
<p>Most Columbia and Barnard students do not have an issue with class enrollments, but there are obviously other problems with campus politics amongst the two groups.</p>
<p>
This is a valid point, but there is little that you can do about it. You can choose not come to Columbia for this reason, which would be foolish if this were your only rationale for not choosing Columbia. Alternatively, you can cry some more about how life is so unfair. Otherwise, you can just live with it, realizing that it doesn’t really negatively impact you that much (and also recognize that Barnard students do enrich the campus by joining sororities without paying for Greek life with their student life fees, prancing around in heels at Butler, helping out curves in pretty much every class where there is a significant representation, and putting out for Columbia guys).</p>
<p>OK, I have a question…what makes Columbia a better school than Barnard. If the same education is available to students a both, what makes the education you get at one better than the education you get at the other?</p>
<p>On a slightly different note, many educational consortia operate in a similar way–the Five College Consortium has spaces reserved for students from the other colleges in its classes, so there, as well, students from other institutions receive priority over resident students for popular classes. It’s something that students know going in–like the Barnard/Columbia situation, and are free to take it or leave it with respect to whether they apply to a particular institution.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As in many issues, what is “better” is in the eye of the beholder. Columbia College is obviously much more well-known and offers the Core, which for many is a distinct advantage. Barnard offers arguably better counseling and the basic requirements being met through the “nine ways” provides for much more flexibility in scheduling. Not to mention the emphasis upon women and issues specific to that. </p>
<p>Before my daughter enrolled at Barnard, we met with a tenured English professor at Columbia who told us that he actually felt that Barnard classes were in fact better than many of the same classes offered through Columbia. And he had told many students to take the Barnard ones over the Columbia ones.</p>
<p>So, Quill, I don’t know that there is an easy answer to your question. The good news is that the fact that Barnard and Columbia share this unique relationship, and this offers many benefits to students of both schools. Every Barnard student I have ever known felt that their Barnard educational experience was exactly what they wanted…not one they would have had as a Columbia College or SEAS student. And I am sure most Columbia College co-eds would say the same about their own experience. There are great things about each school.</p>
<p>
NOT TRUE! It only lacks the prestige of Columbia. In fact, Barnard has a better advising system and many students have said they liked Barnard classes better than Columbia classes. How does this make Barnard SIGNIFICANTLY worse?</p>
<p>Rainbowrose, if the Columbia classes are better than the Barnard classes it is an unfair system. But, even if the Barnard classes are as good as the Columbia classes (which I don’t believe to be true, but you do) it is an unfair system.</p>
<p>In reply to Crooked, I appreciate your support on my point. There actually is a lot I can do–like not going to the school. I wouldn’t pretend like I was set on going to Columbia until I heard this–my decision was based on many factors. But, this was a major factor. Its not so much the actual situation as it is the precedent, to screw a few of your younger undergrads over for the benefit of a different school. I’m not calling anyone stupid. I’m just wondering why someone who goes to a different college (whether they chose to go there over Columbia or didn’t get into Columbia) should get priority over me in getting the best instruction at my College and at their College–even if I am a Sophomore and they’re a Senior.</p>
<p>Most of the non-HYP schools do their best to make the most of their resources for their undergrads in order to make up for their disadvantages in categories like prestige and endowment. This is the sort of thing that makes me scratch my head and wonder if they’re more worried about looking good to the community in the City than they are about their undergrads.</p>
<p>Obviously its not a big thing, but its senseless enough that it made an impact on my view of the people in charge at Columbia.</p>
<p>It’s certainly true that some many who unthinkingly applied to Barnard would rather have attended Columbia, and it’s even true that some of those girls were admitted, just as many who unthinkingly apply to Harvard do so only for the name, and unfortunately some get past the admissions committee. Generally speaking, though, the Barnard admissions committee only accepts those girls who truly want to go to Barnard and appreciate the school’s single-sex identity, just as the Harvard admissions committee only accepts those who are qualified for and truly a good fit for Harvard.</p>
<p>Powerbomb,
My point is that I would hate to go to school with the people who apply to Harvard, but wouldn’t mind going to school with those who are admitted. Too many elitist, overly competitive prestige-whores apply to Harvard. But it is my belief that the admissions committee does a good job in weeding them out. I think the same is true of Barnard: plenty of girls apply who just want to go to Columbia and don’t give a **** about the single-sex mission and identity of the school, but I think the admissions committe does a good job weeding them out.</p>
<p>MSauce,
Is it bad that SEAS upperclassmen and GS students get preference over CC underclassmen? After all, that’s another college taking preference over yours. CC/SEAS/GS and Barnard are not as separate as you seem to insist upon.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Even giving in to your points about marginally better advising (which is extremely contentious in itself) and about some b girls saying they like b classes better (very impartial, no?), is that all the evidence you’re going to give to convince people that b is on the same playing field as Columbia? How about that Columbia alums are much better recognized both by the general populace and by recruiters? Try getting a recruiting/i-banking job with that b degree (even with the Trustees of Columbia University on it).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Easy to say, hard to achieve in practice. You’ll find out once you get on campus (for real).</p>
<p>@MSauce I guess I should have been more specific. People on these boards have told me they get more personal attention from Barnard professors. I guess some people like that better and some don’t. </p>
<p>I personally don’t know which one I’d pick. I’d probably apply to both and see which one I get into. They both have pros and cons.</p>
<p>FYI Barnard girls aren’t STUPID. They’re often just as smart or a very insignificant amount less smart that Columbia students, but maybe lacked the WOW factor that you need to get into the Ivies or adcoms thought these people were good fits at Barnard and not Columbia.</p>
<p>I know people who would pick Barnard over Cornell, if that says anything (granted most of you probably won’t think it does… but whatever).</p>
<p>I would just point out that there is more to Barnard than “single sex identity” – my d. applied to Barnard <em>in spite of</em>, not because of, the single sex thing. But she did not, and would not, have wanted to apply to Columbia. She would not have wanted Columbia’s core, and after having spent time on campus, in hindsight she also would not have wanted Columbia’s administration. (there is a palpable difference between administration/student relations at Columbia vs. Barnard). The only Ivy she applied to was Brown, which she liked because of the open curriculum. She wanted as much flexibility as possible with course choices – she wasn’t a great fan of the “9 ways of knowing” but at least it offered a good deal of flexibility. </p>
<p>I am sure that there are many who believe that Columbia’s strength lies in its core curriculum – and certainly that is a legitimate view point. Certainly it creates a level of academic cohesiveness – a shared intellectual experience – that sets it apart from universities that do not have a core. And it does mean that Columbia education is qualitatively different from a Barnard education – by definition, Columbia students have completed a certain underlying curriculum that Barnard students may or may not replicate in their own coursework, depending on the choices they make.</p>
<p>But that doesn’t mean that one school is “better” or “worse” – for example, if you were to look at Harvard’s current general education requirements, you would have to conclude that they more closely resemble Barnard’s 9-ways than Columbia’s core. I think the main thing that Barnard offers is an LAC-like alternative, with closer advising and stronger faculty/student relationships – but with the resources of a major research university. My daughter also applied to and was accepted at NYU’s Gallatin School of Individualized Study, which we thought would offer a similar benefit in its environment. </p>
<p>My d. has never earned any grade lower than an A- in any course taken at Columbia, and in fact her GPA was considerably enhanced with an A+ in a 5-point Columbia course during her freshman year. I do not know whether her profs applied a curve in any class, but if so I can see why some Columbia students are bemoaning the “fairness” of having Barnard students in their classes. I assume that a student who is resentful of the presence of others or overly concerned about “fairness” probably has low self-esteem and lacks confidence in their own abilities – hence the desire to erect competitive barriers. (Individuals with more confidence generally don’t care – their internalized world view leads them to assume that they are likely to get what they want in any case, and they are very capable of advocating for themselves when necessary). </p>
<p>One reason my d. chose Barnard/Columbia is because of the diversity of the campus and the urban environment. She was looking beyond the classroom at the immediate community – and was happy to make the entire city of NY into her “campus”, rubbing elbows on the subway with people from all ages and backgrounds. She has friends and socializes with students from many colleges – NYU, CUNY, New School, Julliard – as well as Columbia, GS & JTS. </p>
<p>I don’t think that the Columbia campus would be a good place for any student looking for exclusivity. It’s a diverse, urban campus with a wide array of students from different backgrounds. Like other urban universities, the quality of instruction in some classes is sometime diminished because of the use of highly qualified TA’s or grad students who unfortunately have limited command of the English language (an issue my daughter struggled with in a stats class at Columbia). As far as I know, although Barnard profs do have TA’s, Barnard classes are taught by full professors – whereas many of my d’s classes at Columbia were not. (I’m a graduate of a public university, so I don’t really think its such a big deal – I figure that intelligent students will find ways to compensate).</p>
<p>are barnard girls hot?</p>
<p>
Actually, I think that majority of Barnard applicants do NOT apply to Columbia as well. While there are a significant number of cross-applicants to both colleges, I think that in general Barnard applicants are looking for a different collegiate experience. </p>
<p>I’d note that my d. turned down an offer from a university ranked equally to Columbia by US News in order to attend Barnard. </p>
<p>I also have no clue as to what advising is like at Columbia, but as a parent I have to say that the top of my list for “pleasant surprises” or “exceeded expectations” would be the quality of the advising at Barnard. It actually was nothing short of amazing. My daughter’s freshman advisor was the head of a joint department with Columbia, AND the director of a Columbia-run research institute – and in the first week of school she gave my daughter her home telephone number and they literally spent hours on the phone to resolve a problem that my d. encountered related to course planning. My d. continued through her career to regard that prof as a friend. And that’s just one of many – there is a a kind of redundant advising system with assigned advisors, class deans, deans in charge of specific areas (such as study abroad), thesis advisor, etc.</p>
<p>Again, I have no idea what Columbia does. If it is half as good at supporting and responding to student needs as Barnard, then it would be great. (I can compare Barnard’s advising system to other colleges where I have some experience… which is exactly why I was so amazed at what Barnard offered. There is a lot of hype that is on college web sites and promotional material, but when it comes to the advising and the faculty/student relationships, Barnard really delivers. In other areas - for example, food service - not so much).</p>
<p>MSauce: If you care even a little about Columbia I’d suggest ending this thread here. Your are driving prospective and admitted students away from Columbia by trying to put down Barnard on this thread. Barnard is a fine institution and does not have all of the same goals as Columbia. I’m a current senior at Columbia and I can tell you that Barnard girls do just fine, have no problem going to their school, hardly anyone at Columbia worries about whether Barnard is taking resources or is better or worse etc. You’d have to be really insecure to do so, and it simply speaks badly of you if you need to constantly draw comparisons.</p>
<p>MSauce, you are not a current student, so you really have no perspective on the Barnard-Columbia relationship. (For the record MSauce is a high school senior deciding between Yale and Princeton) To everyone else MSauce is nothing like the vast majority of students on campus. MSauce, if you continue discussing this, I will assume you want to be a ■■■■■, because arguing columbia vs. barnard isn’t productive to anyone on this board and gives people a distorted representation of reality (which is Columbia/Barnard being a single pretty congenial community). It seems like you want to drive people away from Columbia.</p>
<p>MSauce, I’m a sophomore in the college, and I have not had a single problem with getting into classes that I want. Last year registration filled up very quickly for Gulati’s Principles of Economics class (very, very popular) and I didn’t get in. First day of class I dropped by the class, asked him to sign a sheet of paper for me, and bam, I got in. </p>
<p>You now have several current and former students telling you that this is not an issue. I know its a stretch, but I’m going to go ahead and say that we’re more familiar with this than you are, even if you did talk to some former students. I have lunch everyday with current students, and register every semester with current students; we are telling you, this is not a problem. </p>
<p>So if its not a problem, why change a system that works? </p>
<p>And, side note: the class that I had the hardest time getting into for next semester was actually a realllllly popular Barnard history class. So, yea.</p>
<p>Good luck wherever you’re going, but please stop making an issue out of something that a) you don’t know enough about and b) is simply not an issue.</p>
<p>My Junior daughter will be applying to both schools and we will be thrilled to get into either one :)</p>
<p>Best to your daughter, stalkermama. If you have any questions about Barnard, head on over to the Barnard forum and you will find helpful folks there! As you will here for any questions you may have about CC :)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.wikicu.com/Barnard-Columbia_relationship[/url]”>http://www.wikicu.com/Barnard-Columbia_relationship</a></p>
<p>some CU students wrote this. I think it sums a lot of stuff up welll.</p>
<p>BTW, I’m going to Barnard next year and I had no intention of applying to CC, though my brother went there. Different strokes for different folks, haters are gonna be there, but I’m thrilled with the opportunities the college offers me. I don’t consider myself a columbia college student, just a part of the larger university community. But really, does it honestly matter? From what I’ve heard from students on both campuses, it’s not like we’re warring for class space or anything.</p>
<p>Columbia University gives away Pulitzer prizes which is why Columbia is more prestigious. COLUMBIA 1
BARNARD 0</p>