<p>To schools like Berkeley and Carnegie Mellon.</p>
<p>Probably not as good if you’re measuring your experience solely on the math. Unless you’re looking to go to grad school in math though, Duke will give you the better overall experience and still give you a solid education in math.</p>
<p>Duke’s math department is less strong than Berkeley’s and Carnegie Mellon’s–and to say that Duke “will give you the better overall experience” is a very Duke thing to say–especially when you have no idea what kind of experience BlizzaP is looking for. What if BlizzaP wants a college experience marked by an extraordinarily diverse student body in an interesting college town near one of the greatest cities in the world? And no, I don’t mean Durham, NC or Pittsburgh, PA.
I went to Duke, and I would say, for myself, Berkeley would have provided a much “better overall experience.”</p>
<p>
Incorrect. As usual, you trip over yourself to bash Duke without checking the facts - or perhaps you simply ignore them. :rolleyes: By graduate rankings, Berkeley > Duke > Carnegie Mellon in math. </p>
<p>By size, 5.2:1 at Berkeley (~340 majors, ~65 faculty), 3.6:1 at CMU (~144 majors, ~40 faculty), and 2.8:1 at Duke (~112 majors, ~40 faculty). You’d thus find the department at Duke cozier than at either Berkeley or Carnegie Mellon.</p>
<p>Only 4 American universities have placed in the top 5 in the Putnam math competition more consistently than Duke (Harvard, MIT, Caltech, and Princeton), and only 3 universities have done better since 1990 (Harvard, MIT, Princeton).</p>
<p>I agree with Arzachel about graduate school preparation. A math major I knew got into math PhD programs at Princeton and Berkeley, so clearly the department prepares one quite well.</p>
<p>I will be blunt and say that it’s difficult to justify an application to Berkeley unless you’re in-state. It’s an excellent school, to be sure, but the financial situation has affected the university to such a degree that even students and alumni are admitting that it can be difficult to get the classes one needs. OOS applicants should expect no financial aid whatsoever.</p>
<p>Umm, you are, as always, the uninformed one hoya. As someone who has lived basicallly right by Berkeley all my life and who has literally dozens of friends who go there, I can tell you that Duke provides the better overall experience for sure. And Berkeley would be the last on my list in terms of the most diverse student body. It’s always funny when you see someone constantly hanging around a school’s board for no other reason than to post largely unfounded criticisms of the school.</p>
<p>You all can’t stand it that someone, anyone, could experience the Gothic Wonderland as anything less than wonderful! It is hilarious. Duke has many great attributes for an undergraduate experience–a beautiful campus, traditional school spirit, basketball, and solid academics in most areas–that’s why I went there (also, the full ride didn’t hurt; it is difficult to pass up a merit-based full ride–something most other top schools do not offer). Duke, however, is certainly not perfect–Duke has some intrinsic problems with racism, homophobia, and a lack of intellectualism that most people who are honest about the place will acknowledge. Even with those issues aside, no school is perfect for everyone; and despite what you might think, Duke is not the best place for everyone. It is pretentious, condescending, and narrow to describe it as providing the “best overall experience”–don’t you see the craziness of such a statement when you don’t consider for whom? </p>
<p>My decision to go to Duke was probably the second best decision I ever made in my life–the best was my decision to transfer from Duke. The attitude that you all display was a small (but not insignificant) part of why Duke was not for me (that “I drank the Kool-Aid and you better too” attitude)–the bigger issues were related to location, social environment, cultural life, community atmosphere, and intellectual atmosphere. I am grateful I went to Duke mostly because my experience there taught me about myself–what I really valued and wanted for my undergraduate experience–and made me appreciate even more the schools I subsequently attended/attend for both my undergraduate + graduate school years.</p>
<p>Finally, as usual, my comments about Duke Math were taken out of context, and I regret I was not clearer about my characterization of the “stronger” departments. I agree that the undergraduate program at Duke will prepare students to go on to strong graduate programs in mathematics. I was simply describing the strength of the departments as evaluated by NRC in their most recent ranking determinations (considered the most valid authority by academia)–the NRC now ranks the PhD graduate programs in a “range” format–the results for mathematics being:</p>
<p>Berkeley: 2-5
Carnegie Mellon: 12-28
Duke: 48-80</p>
<p>(By the way, Penn State is #1).</p>
<p>If you do a quick word search of this thread, the only person who uses the word “best” is you, so I don’t know who you were quoting that from. Compared to Berkeley and CMU, I whole heartedly believe Duke would give the more balanced college experience for the average student. The fact that you transferred from Duke and yet post here all the time bashing the school says more about your own bias against the school than anything else. If you found somewhere else where you were happier, that’s great, but the fact that you weren’t able to find your own niche here puts you in the small minority as the vast majority of people I have met have loved their Duke experience, many of whom are not the party-types.</p>
<p>
On the contrary, the NRC rankings are more useless than most for undergraduate quality. At the graduate level, they are undoubtedly more accurate – though equally useless.</p>
<p>Of the 20 criteria used for the survey, precisely three are of interest to undergrads - publications per faculty member, citations per publication, and awards per faculty member. The other 17 criteria (time to degree, GRE scores, percent international students, percent with funding, health insurance, etc.) are of virtually no interest to an undergrad, as they have no bearing on his/her education.</p>
<p>I haven’t bothered to look at the new NRC rankings except for my own field, but I’d find any ranking with Penn State #1 in math highly dubious. A leap of 35 spots in 10 years with a comparatively small endowment seems questionable. Certainly when you consider only the undergraduate-pertinent aspects of the rankings (research productivity and faculty quality), Duke has a slight edge over CMU – as it does in the old NRC ranking and the US News ranking in math, which are based solely on faculty views of quality.</p>
<p>[Mathematics</a> Rankings — PhDs.org Graduate School Guide](<a href=“http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/mathematics]Mathematics”>http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/mathematics)</p>
<p><a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-mathematics-programs/rankings[/url]”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-mathematics-programs/rankings</a>
<a href=“http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/area31.html[/url]”>http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/area31.html</a></p>
<p>I know these posts are pretty old but still very relevant to many, I believe.
Can anyone make the comparison again between Berkeley and Duke in respect of
1.friendly atmosphere (to non-Christian, non Caucasian students, since they’re predominantly whites),
2.math/chemistry/economics or majors prepared for nano science at graduate level,
3.cost of living in general, and the weather all year round, and
4.any others of relevance?
Lastly, how would a visit help anyone decide?
Many thanks in anticipation.</p>
<p>Many thanks in advance.</p>