<p>RIght. And for several years UW-Madison was in the top 3 or 4 as well.</p>
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<p><a href=“UW-Madison among leaders in producing CEOs”>http://www.news.wisc.edu/18819</a></p>
<p>^When you’re talking about 3 graduates out of hundreds of thousands statistics like this are pretty meaningless.</p>
<p>Good point, Sue. But then 21 is meaningless too. The point is that CEOs and other successful people get their start from lots of places. Most of us know this. Some high school kids and a few others don’t.</p>
<p>^I agree. The 21 for Harvard is not particularly meaningful either, particularly because 14 of those degrees were from HBS. In addition it doesn’t make sense to compare the total number of degrees from schools that have business and law school with those that don’t.</p>
<p>The point of the article was not to look at where the CEOs of the largest 100 corporations went to undergrad but to point out that many of them did not have graduate degrees, contrary to expectations.</p>
<p>I also think that looking at where the top .01% of graduates of any school ended up is not especially useful. I want to know where the top 50%, 10%, and 2% ended up.</p>
<p>I want to make one point that is sometimes overlooked about EFCs (as a parent of four): if we had quadruplets going through college at the same time, our EFC would be cut in quarters and we’d receive significant aid. Spaced out, our EFC is much higher (for our oldest, we did not qualify for any aid because she was four years ahead in school than the next-eldest.) There is no recognition in the formula for what you may owe in Plus loans (or whatever) for tuition paid for older children. My husband and I have been able to make it work through a combination of sacrifice (driving cars with duct taped bumpers can be a badge of honor) and alternative financing. (We used the equity we built up in our house over 20+ years to finance tuition at a much lower rate than Plus loans.) We did save for college and were able to pay most of our oldest daughters’ tuition without loans, but not many families can save enough to send 3, 4, or more to college without financing it in some way. </p>
<p>Another issue that comes up is, are all kids in a family treated equally, in terms of education money spent? Our philosophy is that we try to give each what she needs, even if the actual proportion of money spent is uneven. One of ours started at a private school (where she had some merit aid, but not a lot) and transferred to a state school, which turned out to be a better program in her area. I’ve noticed that different families approach the subject of equal spending differently.</p>
<p>I have always been confused as to why people would want to look at where CEOs went to college as a good indication if where one went to school mattered, but it is often brought up by people. It is also brought up that head of this company or that company didn’t even graduate from college. </p>
<p>I think some of the disagreements here turn on the definition of middle class. We are middle class. Our EFC for this year was 20K, aid did not include ANY loans. But the standard fed loan was available, so S took that to go toward the EFC. For the one semester S is attending this year, his grant was over 16K, plus workstudy. adding in a loan makes this cheaper than the local directional U.</p>
<p>If your Ivy EFC is 55K (getting only a few thou in aid), you’re a different kind of middle class than the middle. At that point, it truly is personal choice whether to ding your family budget or go a different route. Taking a merit scholarship instead is an understandable and admirable choice. But it’s hard to imagine how anyone thinks that schools already most generous with aid should or would add in anymore to preserve a family’s present standard of living.</p>
<p>When studies have been done where those who were accepted to the most selective/desired schools in the country chose other options, those people did every bit as well. I recently went to an award dinner for a young woman who was a Rhodes scholar coming from a small local college. She started out at an ivy, and left it after a term. Just hated it there, and excelled at this other college. She will say with no doubt at all, that she got opportunities and support there that she could not have gotten at a larger school where so many talented kids were vying for the same limited spots and opportunities. Cut throat is what she called it, and she didn’t like that atmosphere. It’s ever so competitive these days to get a professors position at any college, so many who teach and are on staff at the unknown schools are every bit as qualified as those at the top schools. So one who is truly dedicated, motivated and talented can do well just about anywhere. As long as the courses and opportunities are there.</p>
<p>In another local, “unknown” school, I happen to know at least a dozen, personally, kids who come for powerhouse families, and even more who come from upper income families and these are good students, not slackers. My son was actually surprised to see this after turning down an award from this school because he wanted to go away to school, and frankly wanted a school with more of the 3 Rs of recognition, ratings and reputation. These kids are doing just fine, thank you. I just spent an afternoon/evening with the parents of such students and Dad in this case is offering up two internships at $20 an hour this summer to kids from there. Let me tell you just looking at the numbers, that the chances of getting one of those internships is higher than what some kids are facing at the elite schools in terms of getting goodies for classmates’ parents. My closest friend’s DD roomed with some of the DDs of very big names and though, yes, she benefited from some subsidized good times from the friendship, she got zip in terms of job and money things. </p>
<p>“We received only a few thousand dollars for the nearly 60k COA.” <== She could have taken out loans, yes? And they charge that because people pay it…because they deem it worth the $60k year. Actually, if you factor in the prep schools, the college app counselors, donor levels, etc., many families prob deem an Ivy education to be worth several hundred thousand, if not into the millions of dollars.</p>
<p>“And for several years UW-Madison was in the top 3 or 4 as well.” <== I’m sure you could work the numbers to make Wisconsin, Michigan and Illinois into the best schools in the nation by some metric…due to each having north of 40k students every year. When Ivies register on those CEO, MD, PhD lists it’s very important to note their small student body size. Furthermore, how to you measure the life of “culture” that comes with an Ivy education?</p>
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<p>True. That is why I think it is more interesting to see how much money a college gets from their alumni every year.</p>
<p>People voting with their wallet gives a perspective how people felt about the institution and their willingness and ability to write a check.</p>
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<p>Huh? oldfort, you just brought this up a few posts back.</p>
<p>edison, again–you are a teenager. Read the NYT article I liked, or cptofthehouse’s post, or any of the numerous threads that already exist on this site about undergraduate schools and achievement. You are putting a group of eight institutions on a pedestal that they don’t deserve (or not in equal measure). There is no “magic” to the Ivies. Read the comments on the NYT article that mention Ivy grads being on food stamps and not having jobs.</p>
<p>I don’t think you actually WANT anyone to refute your assumptions, but this should clear up a few of them. This is for science and engineering PhD’s undergraduate origins. Look at the fourth table in particular. (“TABLE 4. Top 50 U.S. baccalaureate-origin institutions of 2002–11 S&E doctorate recipients, by institutional-yield ratio, institutional control, and 2010 Carnegie classification”)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf13323/”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf13323/</a></p>
<p>See all the liberal arts colleges and state universities? Schools you have never heard of?</p>
<p>You might be surprised at the similar results for non-science PhD’s as well.</p>
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<p>That is an interesting statement. I thought the Ivys were well known for the quality of teaching, the breadth of offerings and their support of the students. I didn’t realize that they only were about the 3 Rs and had nothing else.</p>
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<p>What numbers are you looking at? Is there a source for how many students get internships at elite schools vs. how many get internships at the local unknown school? Or is this just anecdotal “evidence”?</p>
<p>Edison, not to put too fine a point on it, but Michigan IS one of the best schools in the nation. I’m not from Michigan, so I don’t bleed for UM, but really, that is well known. Try to get your facts straight.</p>
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No, I didn’t. I was just responding to someone who brought it up AGAIN. I could be under estimating my kids, but I don’t think my kids will be one of those top 100 CEOs, so I have never looked at where top CEOs went to school as a good indication whether my kids should go to a top tier school. I always looked at how many options am I providing for my kids.</p>
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<li> That wasn’t an article, it was a blog. I thought blog links weren’t allowed here?</li>
<li> Anonymous comments on a blog is not “data”. Most people know that what “Angry Panda” and others say is opinion.</li>
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<p>I just had to comment on this one. edison wrote: "We’re a middle class family and one of my cousins is currently at an Ivy league school. Her internships have come from friends of her new friends at school… And she’s always invited to cool trips. Nobody in our family has a ski house in Breckenridge, you know? And it’s unlikely she would meet a DC law partner’s daughter if she went to Ohio St, you know?</p>
<p>…Also all of her friends are so mobile, like everyone has internships in london, nyc, dc, sf, china, tokyo. I feel like most students at Ohio state would be working in chicago or cincinnati." </p>
<p>This is just funny to me because I went to a public school in Ohio. During college I spent 2 summers on Capitol Hill as a PAID intern. Moreover, one of my best friends was from a very wealthy family from New York. Spent many lovely vacations at their “camp” in the Adirondacks. I declined the trips to their house in Colorado because I don’t ski. :)</p>
<p>“There is no “magic” to the Ivies.” <== With all due respect, you believe the best schools in the world are a sham, bogus, nothing special? As someone headed to an Ivy, I find your comment a little puzzling. If there’s no magic I guess you chalk the world’s obsession with getting their kids into one is as…marketing?</p>
<p>"I don’t think you actually WANT anyone to refute your assumptions, but this should clear up a few of them. This is for science and engineering PhD’s undergraduate origins. Look at the fourth table in particular. (“TABLE 4. Top 50 U.S. baccalaureate-origin institutions of 2002–11 S&E doctorate recipients, by institutional-yield ratio, institutional control, and 2010 Carnegie classification”)</p>
<p><a href=“nsf.gov - NCSES Baccalaureate Origins of U.S.-trained S&E Doctorate Recipients - US National Science Foundation (NSF)”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf13323/</a></p>
<p>See all the liberal arts colleges and state universities? Schools you have never heard of?" </p>
<p><==There aren’t any state schools on there. The top of the list is Ivy and super-selective LAS’s. No surprise. This thread is about Ivies, but I have tremendous respect for the super-selective LAS’s as well.</p>
<p>Ivies get more(all) top students coming in, they have more top students going out. Not surprising. Top students going into other schools and how they came out is what is a relevant comparison. And studies show there isn’t much difference. Do you think Ivies would turn average students into top students coming out? It’s something we can’t test because average students don’t get into Ivies. But those are the comparisons to think about. It’s the students much more than the schools.</p>
<p>“Ivies get more(all) top students coming in, they have more top students going out.” <== Which is why top students want to go there. Intense competition. Corporations know it’s tremendously concentrated. Anyone who goes out of their way to discount an Ivy (or Duke, CIT, MIT, UChicago, or super selective LAS for that matter) always sounds insecure to me.</p>