<p>No, it’s not. Many people (thankfully) have altruistic intentions for their education and their lives. Or, at least, they are not driven by the almighty dollar. </p>
<p>Are those altruistic intentions worth thousands more in tuition? Nobody is that altruistic.</p>
<p>Yes, some people are (read frugaldoctor’s posts as an example). Many people think a fine education is an end in itself, and if they can pay for it or get it paid for, that is enough. </p>
<p>You are in high school. There is a lot you haven’t seen yet. </p>
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<p>Absolutely.
Last year the founder of change.org gave an incredible and motivating talk to the freshman class at Stanford. There are a lot of people working on “social entrepreneurship”.</p>
<p>Besides, it isn’t just about altruism. It can also be that you get access to a great researcher, teacher, classmate that results in your changing your outlook on your career and wind up a heck of a lot happier and more fulfilled.</p>
<p>If your college experience is solely about going to classes to get grades so you can get a higher paid job, you are missing a lot, a lot about the value of a college experience.</p>
<p>The top schools, if you can get in, are much better value than “just under an ivy”. Princeton had the best stats last year where where 74% of students graduate debt-free, and the average debt is just under $5000. That is not true, at almost any of the “just shy of an ivy” schools. </p>
<p>Wow! I’m amazed at how much time people spend going over and over the same thing. The answer is simple. Middle class families get what they can afford. Wealthy people get what they can afford. Some privates have good financial aid for middle class and poor kids who are exceptional enough to get in. They are private schools and can do what they want. People need to get over the idea that we all get what we want when we want it. Only a short time ago, no one who was “middle class” as many define it would have even considered that an elite school was within reach. My kids won’t go to elite schools. Neither did I. Yet we seem to be surviving. My kids will have a decent college education without being saddled with loans. Having the “best” is not a necessity of life. It’s sad to me that there’s always an assumption on these boards that if you don’t have a lot of money saved for college, it’s because you were frivolous. Sometimes people have health issues and financial setbacks that are not related to poor planning. Sometimes life is just hard, and you do what you can.</p>
<p>So you can only be altruistic at an Ivy? Opportunities for altruism exist at all colleges and outside the college realm altogether. </p>
<p>The only rational comparison between colleges is the cost versus the recovery cost of that education. If you were truly altruistic you would either forgo college and use the money toward charitible endeavors or you would go to the lowest cost college possible to save as much for those purposes. (Once again, use the cost-benefit, but spend the difference on your charity of choice)</p>
<p>All other ‘factors’ are not so much rational as emotional: I like the campus. I want the prestige. I want to be close/far from home. My friends go there…etc. You can use those factors if you wish, but take them for what they are.</p>
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That’s pretty darn narrow. There are other ways to be altruistic.</p>
<p>Explain</p>
<p>al·tru·ism the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others (opposed to egoism ). </p>
<p>How exactly is going to an Ivy or similar school MORE altruistic than going to a good school that is more affordable. If anything going to an Ivy is exactly the heart of egoism (the opposite of altruistic). </p>
<p>If you have the means and the desire to go to one of these fine institutions, do so, but don’t try to cloak it in altruism. </p>
<p>Yeah, let’s not kid ourselves that “altruism” is a dominant goal at the Ivies. More than a third of Princeton grads go into finance (this is down from almost half in 2006), and another 1/4 go into services including “consulting.” The numbers are slightly better (or worse, to the capitalists) at Harvard and Yale, but still not showing a strong tendency toward public service of any kind.</p>
<p><a href=“Out of Harvard, and Into Finance - The New York Times”>Out of Harvard, and Into Finance - The New York Times;
<p>People are just so smug here…We can afford what we can afford because we have our 5 kids share one room, never went on vacation, ate no meat except ground beef/turkey, drove 30 year old car and only bought clothes at Goodwill. As far as not buying birthday gifts for kids, that’s just abuse. Yes, of course your kids turned out better than other entitled kids because they were trained from early age on to never expect anything from you.
I will repeat myself again, just check out Princeton’s life after college survey vs Rutger’s (less than 20 miles away), employment rate is higher and salaries are also higher.</p>
<p>I get it that it is not fair when it comes to college opportunity for our kids. Different families with same income, their kids are going to have different options depending on what importance those parents place on education. Bottom line, no matter what we do, we will always feel guilty about how we raised our kids.</p>
<p>We’re a middle class family and one of my cousins is currently at an Ivy league school. Her internships have come from friends of her new friends at school. Last summer she worked at a prestigious law firm where her best friend’s dad is a partner. And she’s always invited to cool trips. Nobody in our family has a ski house in Breckenridge, you know? And it’s unlikely she would meet a DC law partner’s daughter if she went to Ohio St, you know?</p>
<p>As for income disparity, I’ve read studies that show Ivy grads do earn more. Either way, you have to think a lot of young wealthy people don’t care a ton about making the most money. They can afford to take a cooler job or a powerful job while having parents who can supplement their income. Also all of her friends are so mobile, like everyone has internships in london, nyc, dc, sf, china, tokyo. I feel like most students at Ohio state would be working in chicago or cincinnati.</p>
<p>I actually think it would be easier to pay for an Ivy League vs a private school. The Ivy League meets the need. You might not agree with the amount while a private school may not even come close to meeting the need and both the parents and the student will have to get loans to attend. I went to a private school and I remember one friend losing his scholarship because his GPA slightly dropped below a 3.25 and he struggled to pay for his last semester. Here is how the numbers work for me. My EFC for an IVY is 10K. If my daughter went to my alma mater, the cost is from 30-50 and that is dependent upon getting and keeping a scholarship. Cheaper for the Ivy compared to a private school that doesn’t meet needs. </p>
<p>It astonishes me that people still think the Ivy Leagues are the only ticket to “cool trips” and exciting internships.</p>
<p>And then we have this:
<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2013/05/22/where-americas-top-ceos-went-to-school”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2013/05/22/where-americas-top-ceos-went-to-school</a>
Harvard has 21 CEOs out of 100.
What would even be more interesting is where did those CEO’s children go to college?</p>
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Seriously? You need this explained to you?</p>
<p>My DD was accepted to Brown last year. She was so excited; it was her dream school. We are a middle class family and waited eagerly to receive our financial aid package. We received only a few thousand dollars for the nearly 60k COA. While on paper, I’m sure we look financially sound, but we have put off home improvements, vacations, new cars, etc in order to be financially responsible. The car she and her sister drove is 15 years old and held together with duct tape! Sending her to Brown would have wiped out both retirement and rainy day savings and we had that discussion with her (as well as with the Financial Aid office). Ultimately, given the financial considerations, I think she made the right decision to attend a school which offered her a merit scholarship. If she pursues graduate school, an Ivy program may be on the table. Do I think the middle class gets screwed? Definitely, but you make the best of things. </p>
<p>While the Ivys and other schools that meet 100% of need can be manageable for families that have planned to meet their EFC, as some have pointed out, EFCs are sometimes an unwieldy figure especially from private schools.</p>
<p>But going by debt owed to determine if a school is generous can be misleading if the students included didn’t qualify for much need based aid in the first place.</p>
<p>March 12 · edited March 12 </p>
<p>“And then we have this:
<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2013/05/22/where-americas-top-ceos-went-to-school”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2013/05/22/where-americas-top-ceos-went-to-school</a>
Harvard has 21 CEOs out of 100.”</p>
<p>If you look at that list closely, only 7 of those Harvard grads are for undergrad, 12 went to Harvard for Grad school. You will also notice that U of Kansas ( ranked 86th) and SMU ( ranked 48th) has as many alumni (3) on this list as Princeton and Columbia. When I look at this list, it says to me that most tio CEO’s did NOT attend an Ivy for undergrad.</p>
<p>I don’t have time to google, but it would be interesting to see where those CEOs (ones who didn’t go to top tier schools) send their kids to college. I know Ralph Lauren was pretty keen on his kids going to Duke. I know someone who grew up dirt poor and is now a senior partner at a PE firm has paid big bucks and invested a lot of personal time to make sure his kids (with subpar stats) could attend Cornell. </p>