<p>I attended a meeting at d's school today where the principal discussed the Valedictorian & Salutatorian situation at graduation. here's the short story...
Last year student #3 and family threated legal action - and almost had an injunction to stop graduation if child was not recognized during graduation. The family was upset that the Val & Sal. received the same credits for AP classes in the Fine Arts that their child did for AP in science or other more "academic" subjects. The morning of the graduation the administration didn't even know if there would be a graduation! Finally a solution was reached and the top 5 students were named at graduation and val & sal. gave their speeches.
Flash forward to this year:
To avoid another replay - administration decided to do away with val & sal speeches...one problem.. no one told val & sal. till just last week. Needless to say, they were upset, families were upset, lawyers were contacted once again. End result, val & sal will give speeches.
The future....the administration wants to have a policy in place at the start of the school year so there are no "May surprises".<br>
Here are the proposals....
1. Keep things the way they are and hope for the best.
2. Select v & s - recognize them but not have them give speeches at graduation.
3. Select v & s and have them give speeches at Awards Assembly not graduation
4. Select v & s but have the speech given by class president
5. Select v & s but have the speech given by senior who wins "speech contest".</p>
<p>So, here's where I can use your input so I can report back to the committee. What does your school? What do you think of the proposals?
Also, should any change be "grandfathered in - i.e. incoming 9th graders would fall under new policy but 10 - 12 would be under old policy?</p>
<p>Before I get into the issue of choosing the val and sal, I would like to say that I find it unbelievable that parents would try to devalue the AP fine arts courses as compared to other AP courses. Some students who could easily get a 5 on the AP Physics test would fail in the arts courses (and vice versa). Do these parents think that if the student at a college with the highest average happens to be a fine arts major, they should not be honored as valedictorian of the college? My school does not offer AP courses in the fine arts, and my daughter was fortunate to be able to complete the AP Art History curriculum as an independent study, under the supervision of a social studies teacher who had studied art history in college. It is a very challenging course to complete, as it surveys all of art history from prehistoric to modern times.
As far as val and sal, our school chooses the two with the highest GPA at the end of the 3rd marking period. Honors classes are given a 4.5 for an A and AP courses are given a 5.0 for an A on a 4.0 scale. The normal load at our school is 6 courses plus phys ed (and health in 10th grade). Students may take a 7th course if it fits into their schedule, but this course does not count in their GPA.</p>
<p>My school makes the top 5 seniors write speeches, but only the val. and sal. will give speeches (and the Executive Class Council Pres., Senior Class Council Pres., etc.) at graduation. The top 5 seniors sit on the stage during graduation, though. The other 3 have minor roles- welcome, pledge of allegiance, etc. </p>
<p>All 5 play important roles in the Awards Night. We had ours tonight- we got to sit on the stage and announce various awards. </p>
<p>I honestly think Option 1 is the best choice; last year's #3 needed to get over it. At my school, the val. and sal. (me) have taken the exact same classes except he took art and I took band. Art is an IB class; band is an honors class. I don't know why... Anyway, the direct result was I forfeited the #1 spot. I don't regret it at all (we're both going to Duke).</p>
<p>My school completely did away with Valedictorian/Salutatorian titles a couple of years ago because it "made high school too competitive". Instead, we use a system similar to option 5 on your list. Students who are honors graduates are allowed to audition to give the speech. All students who want to give the speech turn in a written speech to the administrators. A committee of administrators then narrows that list down to five top candidates. These students actuallly present their speech to five faculty members - this year I think if was the associate principal, head counselor, student council advisor, NHS advisor and one other person. Each of these people gets one vote in the selection process. The sixth and final vote comes from the senior class. The seniors are given the list of five names and asked to vote for the candidates. The person with the most of the senior votes gets one committee vote and the person with the most committee votes gives the speech. Complicated, but it seems to have worked.</p>
<p>The main issue we have had with this system is the question of who is allowed to make speeches. All graduates? Honor graduates only? Top 10 individuals? Also, the two students who earned the top two spots get no recognition at all. (Though, since I am one of the students in these positions, my view here is probably biased).</p>
<p>If I had to choose from your options, I would either stick with the traditional system (#1) or go with a combination of #2 and #5 - select a V and a S, recognize them at graduation, but use a system of faculty commitee + student vote to choose who gives the commencement address. As for the students already in high school, could they be allowed to vote on what system their class preferred?</p>
<p>Adding to what I said earlier- it seems absurd to have a valedictorian and salutatorian that don't give speeches. By the very definition, the salutatorian gives the salutatory (opening speech), and the valedictorian gives the valedictory (closing speech). If you don't allow speeches, don't use the titles.</p>
<ol>
<li> Recognize the top 10 GPA students</li>
<li> Hold a lottery to determine who gives the speech.</li>
<li> Use ping pong balls with the students names on the balls</li>
<li> Assign 10 balls to the #1 ranked student, 9 to the #2 ranked student, etc.... 1 ball for the #10 ranked student. </li>
</ol>
<p>This system gives a better chance to the student with the higher cummulative GPA, but allows for luck to take over in the selection of the speaker, just as luck (and manipulation) probably had something to do with the final order of the top 10 students.</p>
<p>The winner gets to give the speech. It works for the NBA! :) Hopefully going through this process will make everyone feel foolish.</p>
<p>nun, at YOUR school, given the situation - I'd vote for a lottery to be held on May 1st every year to draw 2 names of students to speak at graduation. Anything other than a completely random process is going to have have someone suing over something.</p>
<p>The problem actually was last year, when the administration actually gave into those unreasonable demands. At my son's high school, val and sal were picked from unweighted grades -- so it didn't matter of the A was in PE or calculus, it was weighted the same. If your school's administration is going to be bullied by threats of lawsuits then maybe they should dispense with the graduation ceremony entirely.... though I pity you and the teachers for having to live in the same town with those parents.</p>
<p>we don't rank so val and sal don't exist. Instead, ANY graduation senior is allowed to draft a grad speech for peer/faculty reveiw, and can be selected to speak.</p>
<p>My understanding of val and sal prior to our country's current law suit craziness: The highest GPA is the val and the second highest is the sal and both give speeches at graduation. In my high school it was the top boy and top girl. Our local high school only recognizes the val as the top GPA in the class and they give a speech at graduation. </p>
<p>The whole purpose of val and sal is to give speeches at graduation. If they are not speaking at graduation, they are not the val and sal. I don't think high schools should give into parental pressure to abandon this time honored tradition. Why should one bully parent ruin it for everyone? Did the school administration really believe a court would stop graduation to appease one disgruntled parent? The school was not breaking any laws holding a traditional graduation. There is no legal basis for this case. If the school gives in on this case, they are inviting more unhappy parents to make unreasonable demands. Leave things as they are and tell parents who don't like it that no one is forcing them to attend.</p>
<p>Thanks for your input everyone. Keep those suggestions coming. Some clarification here - I should be calling them 1 & 2 not val & sal. since it is possible that no speech would be given thus no titles - (thanks Tanman). Also, I'm not sure why admin made the decision they did last year, but the possibility of no graduation ceremony last year was a real concern.
I'm thinking the lottery on May 1st works!</p>
<p>Our high school names val and sal at end of third marking period; they give speeches at graduation along with Sr Class Pres and Student Council Pres. Recently the district has begun to hold special dinner or reception to recognize top 10 students with highest GPAs. Years ago school district considered school service & involvement along with GPA as criteria for val and sal but I don't know if they still do
that now. A few years ago there was a lawsuit because the val had, I believe, a higher unweighted GPA with fewer AP and Honors courses. Due to schedule conflict, S#3 had to take a lower level math course;
principal said that if he were in running for val or sal this would be discussed with other top students and he could still be considered for val or sal despite one less AP/Honors course; however, this is not an issue.</p>
<p>Student with the highest weighted GPA is Val., student with second highest is Sal. Only the Val and class president speak at graduation. The Val and Sal are given top billing in the printed program. Any student that graduates with honors has that listed by their name in the program.</p>
<p>val and sal are announced after the first semester of senior year. The val gives welcome. Any senior in top 10% can write a speech and then give it using a mike before a panel of judges that inlcudes counselors, administrators, teachers and the pres of stuco and another student. As luck would have it, this year, my D is sal and she is giving the speech. Last year it was a gril who just made it into the top 10%. The class president leads the pledge, another class officer gives the invocation, and another the benediction.</p>
<p>If our high school had val and sal, there'd be blood in the halls. Very very competitive public school. No class rank. A student who would like to speak at graduation can submit his speech to a committee. The winner gets to present at graduation. It doesn't matter where you are in the class - if you write a great speech you win.
Personally I really like this idea. Brilliant students don't necessarily write or deliver the most inspiring or motivational speeches.</p>
<p>Top gpa=val; second=sal. They both prepare speeches. Also any senior can apply to speak as well. We have graduating classes of 25! Lots of focus on each student in the director's speech and in the speeches of the others. One "politician" speaks and one faculty member.</p>
<p>no val and sal. GPA above 4.4 summa cum laude, GPA above 4.0 magna cum laude. Any those summa cum laude can petition to speak at the graduation.</p>
<p>Top 20 are recognized but not order-ranked (Large suburban public HS does not rank).Val and Sal are identified and speak,top 20 group based on unweighted averages (How D#1 got into the top 20, she had only taken 2AP's).
All awards,certificates, scholarships,trophy's,recognition of top 20 etc. done at an awards night ceremony, allowing actual graduation ceremony to be kept to a civilized time frame.</p>
<p>Our school- which is more heterogeneous than, say, a top private school, has the traditional set-up: val and sal (determined by weighted grade ranking) each make a speech at graduation. And I agree with Motheroftwo that to make a distinction between different types of AP classes is ridiculous--the fact that the OP's school even catered to that notion in the first place is where the problem is.</p>
<p>Students who are #1,2, and 3 are recognized in program. Weighted grades from classes that are taken as a "major". Art, music, theater classes can be taken as a major, however the point value is lower than the honors and ap classes point values, so kids in the top decile do not take these classes as a major. Rank is decided after the last semester of senior year.</p>
<p>Speech is given by student(s) who prepare a speech, give it in front of the senior class and are selected by a group.</p>