How far can hard work get you in physics?

<p>I really want to study physics in college, and like everyone else, I would like a good chance at grad school. But I am scared that I am not good enough. While I do read very inspiring threads in other forums about hard work, how far can it really take you. At what point does intelligence become a factor?</p>

<p>I’d say you can get through undergrad with good enough grades in physics to go to grad school (even with an average IQ), but grad school courses will separate the geniuses from the above average/average IQ’s. </p>

<p>I would say the mathematics major does a better job of separating the geniuses from the average in undergrad.</p>

<p>There was a study done at the University of Oregon looking at the relationship between academic success in various majors and SAT scores. They found that in Liberal Arts majors, low SAT scores were not always a prediction of failure. However, in the case of Physics, it was essentially impossible for anyone with a Math SAT score of less than 600 to succeed as a Physics major and most Physics majors who went on to graduate studies in Physics had Math SAT scores of 700 or higher.</p>

<p>Would you say this is with or without studying. Problem with me is that I never truly paid attention to my math classes, and I really have a shaky foundation in it. I did score slightly higher than a 600 in my PSATs back a year ago. However, I am now trying to fix my math problem by starting from the basics and learning all the techniques over this summer. I am doing this because many say that people tend to have problems with progressively higher level math because they do not have a good foundation. I just don’t know if I am intellectually good enough. I don’t know if this says anything, but I have received a SAT Chemistry score of 770 and feel confident in getting a 5. But whenever I was in the class, I had a difficult time figuring out problems before the solution was presented to me, after that, I could solve similar problems very easily. I have a love for science, but I don’t know if I am capable of handling the math.</p>

<p>I think for physics there is a certain minimum level of intelligence that you must meet to be successful, but beyond that, I think your success is determined by hard work and creativity. For example, when I took honors physics my freshman year of college, I put in a lot of work, always going to lecture and taking notes and spending a significant amount of time on homework. Not only did I do problems, I also really made an effort to understand things rereading derivations in my notes and textbook until I could see the logic behind every step. There were some other people who by comparison just skated by and it appeared that they were able to do well without putting in much effort. Sometimes thought that they felt superior to me because I put in so much effort and this made me feel like I wasn’t smart enough to do physics. I was probably also somewhat misled by appearances. It is possible that these people put in more work than they said they did or that they were not doing as well as I thought they were, but at the time I felt very discouraged.
Fast forward to the end of junior year. By this point in my academic career I have been very successful in several graduate classes, in research (I am currently publishing a paper in a theoretical field), have received several very significant awards, and have great relationships with my professors, a few of whom will be writing me letters for grad school. However, many of the kids who I thought were so much smarter than I was have burned out. Because I spent so much time studying in my earlier courses, graduate courses have been very straightforward for me since I understand concepts beyond just doing problems and have the ability identify relationships between topics. For others, upper level and grad courses have been a huge challenge, with one person saying that our undergraduate curriculum had not prepared him to take grad courses. Another person who never went to class the first two years is now discouraged from applying to physics grad school. So the moral of the story is that physics is not a race, it is a marathon and you need to work hard to be successful in the long run.</p>

<p>Short answer: EXTREMELY FAR</p>

<p>I felt the same way when I was in high school so I’ll share my story. I got really interested in physics my junior and senior years of high school but didn’t feel that I could handle the math in college. I did alright in most of my classes but I thought math was pretty boring so I would just copy most of the assignments from friends until I was a junior or senior. At my high school, we didn’t have any AP or honors classes so I finished my senior year with precalc and college algebra, no calculus, and I figured I’d be WAY behind the other kids. My ACT scores were average in about the 29 range. Because I was really interested in physics, I figured the next best thing would be engineering and I knew all I would have to do was get by with above a 3.0 to at least get a job after graduating. </p>

<p>I heard the same thing as you about getting the foundations so, the summer before my freshman year in college, I picked up an old calculus book from amazon and started reading… I literally couldn’t put the book down for about three weeks and fell in love with the subject. I ended up making it through my first year with a 4.0 as an engineering student so I switched to physics and kept this trend through my second year as well. As for the math classes, I’ve earned A+ in all of them (through differential equations) so far and loved ever minute of them! Now, obviously from my high school experience I’m of average intelligence but the difference is definitely my work ethic. I probably put in twice as much time as my class mates but that’s completely fine with me because I absolutely love the challenge physics/math provides.</p>

<p>I suggest following through with your plan: building a strong foundation in math, especially algebra. This will definitely help you with your calculus classes as well as get you used to teaching yourself. A big part of college is being able to take control of your own learning experience and teach yourself things. In my opinion, that’s the most fun part about being a physics major, getting to teach yourself cool things. A tip that has REALLY helped me so far is reading the section BEFORE going to class (especially in math!!!). You will then be familiar with the topics and not trying to build the framework “on the fly”.</p>

<p>My advice: Go for it!</p>

<p>Wow, This is why I love CC. Hearing your experiences and seeing how similar it is to mine gives me great encouragement. My math teachers have put me down constantly because I wasn’t doing well in class, but it is I who decide what I can excel at and what I can’t. This is the first time I am taking the liberty to learn something, instead of following the words of my teacher. I really do hope I can emulate some of you.</p>

<p>

Stephen Hsu looked at this, and although I haven’t read his work very carefully from what I’ve seen it appears that the “point” you’re referring to is when your SAT math score is below 600. I don’t know if this score cutoff is before or after studying (though you can look at the links to find an answer to this question (if there is one)).
[Information</a> Processing: Cognitive thresholds](<a href=“http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2010/03/cognitive-thresholds.html]Information”>Information Processing: Cognitive thresholds)
<a href=“http://arxiv.org/pdf/1011.0663.pdf[/url]”>http://arxiv.org/pdf/1011.0663.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://duende.uoregon.edu/~hsu/blogfiles/dmu.pdf[/url]”>http://duende.uoregon.edu/~hsu/blogfiles/dmu.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also, pages 2-4 of the second link has some interesting information regarding what Hsu thinks are two possible interpretations of his results.</p>

<p>I would go ahead and try it, but also be realistic and if you’re having trouble in your upper level classes and do not have a decent GPA by that point be aware that getting into grad school for physics will be very hard (and even if you get in you still have to pass quals to get higher than a master’s degree).</p>