How Fundamental Is Calculus?

<p>My name is Samian, and I'm going to start my freshman year in college this fall. I was wondering if any of the parents out there could tell me about a certain college course: Calculus. As I understand, many of America's elite colleges recommend (I personally don't know of any that outright require) this course to be taken in high school, generally during the applicant's senior year. Furthermore, I understand that many business and engineering schools require calculus for transfer admission. As any pre-med would know, one year, or its equivalent, is generally required at medical school. Yet this course is also regarded as one of the much more difficult courses taught on the college campus. My own personal major doesn't require it, and as I intend on applying to law school, calculus isn't required either. Yet I'm unsure whether or not to sign up for this course, as I don't know whether any law school would seek it; personally, I would much rather take a college-level Statistics course to fulfill any math requirement at my college. </p>

<p>So I was wondering whether any parent (or student) out there could please comment on the importance of calculus, as well as any personal recommendations they'd have on taking this course. Thanks!</p>

<p>I never took calculus; I went to law school, practiced law for approx 20 years, now work as a writer & computer/web techie. If there is anything in calculus that would have helped me, I'm not aware of it. </p>

<p>I do feel that a good statistics course would be especially useful for an attorney.</p>

<p>Agreed. Remember what these math techniques were invented for. Calculus is for measuring Physics applications and makes physics much easier to do. Statistics is for measuring probability and trends. Statistics is probably more applicable for law. On the other hand you may want to take Calculus for its elegance and the challenge. It's really not as difficult as every one says. HS Algebra II is a more difficult course in my opinion.</p>

<p>That isn't true that you need a full year of calculus for med school. Only Harvard requires that, I believe. Most other med schools want one semester of calculus. If you don't need calculus for your major then you don't need to take it, but if you think you might be majoring in business or engineering then you would. </p>

<p>My D was not that great in math in high school (stopped after Algebra II, but now she is majoring in biology in college so she had to get started in math again. She took college algebra, trigonometry, calculus and statistics for science majors.</p>

<p>Does your college have an applied calculus course, i.e., one for people not majoring in math, science, or engineering? This would be simpler, but would still give you the basics for understanding any application of calculus in science, business, economics, etc. </p>

<p>I do agree that statistics would probably be more worthwhile in the practice of law. It is more a question of whether you want some calculus so you can understand more about the world (same reason you would take any number of courses).</p>

<p>I'm a physician, and one year of calculus was required for med school. That, in addition to physics, were complete wastes of time. Statistics is essential- not just for medicine- but for understanding world events, economics, etc. Go with stats.</p>

<p>about the only colleges that require calculus be taken in HS are Cal Tech and Harvey Mudd. Even MIT does not require it since not all US high schools offer calculus. But, concur with the others: there is no reason to take calc if you are prelaw. Stat is a great course.</p>

<p>I would say for any science or application of science (medicine, engineering, etc) that physics and calculus are absolutely not a waste of time. The higher-end concepts are not vary practical save for a few instances, but the fundamentals on which calculus is based, limits and interation are essential to all science.</p>

<p>Now, for a lawyer, yeah, I don't see where you would ever absolutely need calculus.</p>

<p>Take stats. It's more useful for social science majors and a potential law school application. Personally, I never took any math after Algebra II (not even precalc), and it did not affect my application. (I go to Tufts.) I do wish I had some knowledge of statistics, however.</p>

<p>i tend to look at calculus in much the same way i look at art history. its something i think every educated citizen should take, but its far from essential. statistics, on the other hand, is one of those 'essential' college courses in my mind. in short, id take both.</p>

<p>one thing that hasnt been mentioned here re: calculus is that it makes economics a much friendlier and more approachable subject. even if calculus is not required for certain econ courses at your school, understanding it will eliminate a great deal of the memorization that makes introductory econ classes to tedious. and yes, intros to micro- and macroeconomics are also on my 'essential' list.</p>

<p>Calculus is also quite useful in multivariate statistics. As with all other subject areas, statistics is becoming increasingly sophisticated in the types of models developed to handle complex data situations, often those found in social sciences like economics, psychology, etc. While not essential for law or a rudimentary knowledge of statistics, it will be very helpful if you want to go beyond the first stat course.</p>

<p>If you have any interest in Economics, beyond intro level, you would likely also need calculus, too. (Some people interested in Law/Politics are also interested in Econmics...)</p>

<p>Some of the more quantitative graduate business schools require calculus, too.</p>

<p>Anyone looking to go into political science as a graduate student should consider having calc under his belt.</p>

<p>Btw, my college teaches a course called Long Calculus I, which is basically Calc I material taught over a year as opposed to a semester. </p>

<p>Thanks! I think I will take Stats instead of Calc then!</p>

<p>I've never really liked math, but because I'm in a Math/Science Center, I have to take a lot of it. Last year, my junior year, I took pre-calc at a local university and it was my favorite math class ever. For my senior year I have to take calc and am expecting to like it and do okay. I'd say, that as long as you're okay at math, go ahead and take calc without worries. It's probably not that hard.</p>

<p>It's not essential for law but it's not that hard. I still can't wrap myself around the idea of statistics without calculus...</p>

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about the only colleges that require calculus be taken in HS are Cal Tech and Harvey Mudd. Even MIT does not require it since not all US high schools offer calculus. But, concur with the others: there is no reason to take calc if you are prelaw. Stat is a great course.

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<p>I don't know about CalTech, but Harvey Mudd doesn't require calculus. In fact, their math program is so rigorous, people who have taken calculus or years of math beyond it start over with calculus of a single variable. I think.</p>

<p>"
I don't know about CalTech, but Harvey Mudd doesn't require calculus. "</p>

<p>Caltech doesn't require it either though it is recommended and I would imagine most applicants have taken it. I think Calculus is really cool and would recommend it as an intellectual exercise, but statistic is much more likely to be useful. (I had to take Calculus for architecture school, but have never used it, even for the Statics courses I took there.)</p>

<p>I'm kind of worried that my not taking calculus in high school will be frowned upon during admissions to top schools. What do you guys think ? Obviously, I do have other "marketable" skills in other subject areas, but I'm thinking that taking Math Analysis in my senior year will look very negative (as at my school most seniors take AP Calc or already took it in their junior year !).</p>

<p>Gooduniforme, it really depends on the rest of your academic profile and your major. The best way I can put it is that calculus is a boost; but the lack of calculus is not considered a deficit. If you want to go into math or sciences, you should take calculus. If your interests lie elsewhere, you really should take the course that is best for your individual academic needs. </p>

<p>My daughter was accepted this year to Univ. of Chicago, UC Berkeley, and Barnard (the school she will be attending). She did not take any math beyond Algebra II, which she took in her sophomore year. So Junior/Senior year= no math. There was a reason for this, of course: my daughter took 4 years of Russian, through AP Russian, in her high school; and she spent half of her junior year living in Russia & attending a high school there. When she got back she was not allowed to enroll in trig mid-year, and the following year it was impossible to fit trig into her schedule along with all her other requirements to graduate. Her high school does not offer a true calculus course, though students can opt to take an online course. Of course she explained these facts in her applications. But the main point is that she had the profile of a student with a passion for studying a foreign language -- so obviously she was evaluated in that context. </p>

<p>I don't know what your background and interests are, but it is mistake to think that you have to choose all your courses simply to look good for the colleges. What you really need to do to get into the very top colleges is to differentiate yourself in some way from the other applicants -- so you should be focusing on your academic strengths while at the same time maintaining some balance in your high school course load. So for example, it wouldn't be a good idea for a prospective history major to drop math entirely in order to add an extra history class, but if the student must choose between an AP Europeon History and AP Calc class offered at the same time, maybe for that particular student the AP Euro class is the better choice.</p>

<p>By the way, my daughter comes from a small urban public high school and just about every year there is a student admitted to Harvard or Yale- obviously without calculus. (I don't know whether any of these kids has taken the on-line calc course the school offers, but I know that that is not AP and none of the kids who have taken it would be prepared for the AP exam). Of coures it is a little different with a school that does not offer the course, since the GC will be sure to point that out -- but the point is that the Ivies do accept kids without calculus.</p>