How good are my chances to Early Decision UPenn?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

STATS:

Applying to
• University of Pennsylvania (Early Decision, Reach)
• Northeastern University (Early Action, Target)
• Drexel University (Early Action, Fallback)

My Academics
° 2130 Old SAT (740 M / 750 CR / 640 W)
° 1500 New SAT (Predicted, awaiting scores)
° 700+ Chemistry SAT2 (Predicted)
° 680-760 Math2 SAT2 (Predicted)
° 4.0 GPA
° AP Calc (5), AP Chem (5) (Predicted)
° Founder, President, Mock Trial Club
° President, Media Arts Club
° Extra- extracurriculars (I heard they weren’t worth mentioning. There’s outreach groups, Habitat for Humanity, band, choir, theater, dance, etc., but no leadership roles there. )
° Courseload for first semester: AP Physics 1, AP Statistics, Computer Science, Media Arts

Hi CC. Junior here. I’ve been here before, but since then, I’ve put a lot of thought into an updated plan. I really want to get into UPenn, and I’m going to try out Early Decision to maximize my odds. I’m applying for the CS department, which, as Peterson’s tells me, has a higher acceptance rate than UPenn in general.*

I also really want to get into Northeastern if/when UPenn doesn’t accept me, so I’m applying Early Action there because I hear they give out more aid to students who apply sooner. I’m applying to Drexel too, under Early Action as a backup.

What do you guys think about applying early? I’m not a legacy to any of these schools, and it’s possible that it might benefit me more to show more senior year semesters on my app.

*(Source: https://www.petersons.com/graduate-schools/university-of-pennsylvania-school-of-engineering-and-applied-science-department-of-computer-and-information-science-000_10040372.aspx)

Thanks for the great responses last time, CC. Hopefully this will be my last ChanceMe post until I get accepted somewhere.

2

Not sure if bumping is allowed, but I’d like to get a few thoughts on this

3

Sorry to tell you this, but please don’t waste your ED on Penn. Your chances are not good. unless you have a strong hook. I know of kids with better stats than that who were denied at Penn ED this year. You could get lucky and there is that outside chance, but since you asked, I am giving you an honest answer. Secure your admission, by using your ED card on a school where you have better odds.

4

Fair. Here are some other schools I really like. Which do you think I should use my ED on?

Brown
Dartmouth
Cornell
Tufts
Northeastern
Trinity Dublin

Also, there are some things that I think qualify as a “hook”, but I am not sure. Thanks for your advice, VeryLuckyParent. I came here for honesty!

5

Tufts and Cornell are your two best shots for ED, in my opinion.

Apply for A&S at those schools though – I don’t think your scores are high enough to be competitive as an engineer. Maybe try to get a CS related EC (robotics, outside projects, doing freelance coding, etc.) if possible.

Cornell has a better reputation nationally I think, but both schools are very strong choices. If you absolutely love Brown or Dartmouth, you could also try ED there. ED at Tufts makes a huge difference (12% acceptance RD vs. ~32% acceptance ED), and I think you would have a decent chance of getting in.

However, don’t apply ED just because you’re looking for the most prestigious school possible. Only apply there if you’re 100% sure that’s where you’d want to go.

6

Thanks for the advice.

“Apply for A&S at those schools though – I don’t think your scores are high enough to be competitive as an engineer.”

If I applied to Arts and Sciences, wouldn’t I have to pick another major besides CS? I don’t know if I want to feign interest in a major that I’m not passionate about on my essays.

“If you absolutely love Brown or Dartmouth, you could also try ED there.”

Comparisons of RD to ED:
UPenn 9.8% → 24.5%
Brown 8.1% → 18.5%
Dartmouth 8.6% → 29.4%

So I shouldn’t apply to UPenn because it’s unlikely, but I should apply to Brown, which has a lower ED rate… anyway…

I absolutely love UPenn and I think I’ll love Tufts. Are my ED chances at Tufts (39% ED rate) great enough to apply there? Is Tufts the best that I can do?

“However, don’t apply ED just because you’re looking for the most prestigious school possible. Only apply there if you’re 100% sure that’s where you’d want to go.”

I am 100% sure that I would be ecstatic to get into UPenn.

7

Tufts has Early Decision 2, so you could apply to Penn Early Decision and Tufts ED2 if you want, just know that ED2 is still binding.

8

Your chances don’t almost triple by applying ED to Penn.

The ED pool includes a wealth of special admits that skew the acceptance rate.

Unless you are in one of those special admit groups like recruited athletes it will only very slightly help.

9

No, both Cornell and Tufts offer CS in engineering and A&S. I can tell you about the difference between Tufts CS in the SoE vs. A&S if you decide that you want to apply ED there, but it’s also worth mentioning that at Tufts it’s VERY easy to switch between either school.

I think most people consider Penn to be a bit more selective than Brown, especially when you consider that Brown has significantly fewer applicants than Penn as well as higher average SAT/ACT scores.

Tufts has closer to a 30% acceptance ED, since about half of the class (~650-680 students) is taken in ED, and they had around 2070 applicants. I think your scores are a bit low to be completely honest, but you have a decent shot of getting in ED. If you get your scores up to the 99th percentile I think you’ll have a much stronger application.

Anyway, I agree with @jarrett211, I think that applying ED to Penn might be the best choice for you if it’s your first choice, and ED2 to Tufts is a good alternative. This hurts your chances slightly at Tufts, but not by a huge margin. ED definitely helps overall, but it’s nowhere near 3x like @ClarinetDad16 said. It’s closer to doubling your chances at best, depending on the quality of your application. If you’re a student that they’d be on the fence about in RD, you’ll probably get in ED. If you’re a student who would probably get in RD, but the admissions officers would normally be unconvinced that you’d enroll or would have slight reservations, you’ll almost definitely get in ED.

My experience with ED was overall pretty positive. I had good standardized test scores, strong essays, and I tried to convey that I really wanted to go to the school I had applied to. It made the process pretty painless and it saved me the effort of having to make a difficult decision in April.

10

Noted. I’ll give UPenn a hard second thought then.

As for Northeastern University: what are my chances there? Do you think I’d get a better financial package out of NEU or Tufts?

11

@seventyeight Imagine you get into Tufts or Northeastern? Would you feel happy? If so, from your list those are the ones where you have the best chance statistically IMHO.

12

Personal anecdote:

I applied to Northeastern EA and Tufts ED. Tufts gave me fewer loans and it was cheaper overall (slightly) than NEU. However, I got a $16k/year scholarship to Northeastern. My ACT was a 34C, with 34E, 35M, 35R, 33S.

Also, and this is splitting hairs mainly because I’m a Tufts student, Tufts is technically more competitive than Cornell. In reality they’re the same difficulty to get into, but if we’re going off only admit rate and SAT scores then Tufts is the more competitive school.

If your family’s need is relatively high, Tufts will give you the better financial package, most likely. If your family doesn’t have much demonstrated need and you bring your scores up, it’s likely that Northeastern will pad your acceptance with a scholarship to make it more attractive for you to enroll. Anecdotally, I have found that EA seems to make it easier to get a scholarship from NEU, but maybe that’s just confirmation bias/lack of sample size.

In order of most likely to least likely overall, I’d say your list goes:

Northeastern
Tufts/Cornell
Dartmouth/Brown
Penn

In reality, the difference is pretty minute and students can get accepted to any of the institutions and still be rejected by the others.

13

OP, you would be a long shot for Penn regardless of the admissions round.

What will make you stand out to the admissions committee?

And you need to rank schools to how they fit you. Magazine rankings help place schools into tiers - have little value outside that.

14

I tend to think that Penn would be a super long shot for you. I know kids with better stats and some amazing ECs (with national recognition) that didn’t get into Penn, although in all fairness, I’m not sure which program they applied to. What I saw this year from Tufts was really random – some amazing kids getting WL (including legacies) while some that seemed less compelling (but were still strong applicants) were admitted. REALLY think about fit – it’s much more important than “rank”. Any school that is as selective as these is also, IMHO, somewhat random in the sense that you may or may not fit some need of theirs. For that reason, I wouldn’t try to guess what they’re looking for – I’d focus on what you’re looking for at this point.

15

Good advice. Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.

I guess Tufts or NEU would be a better fit for me, then. But I’m confused – Brown would be easier for me to get into than Penn?

16

Hey man,

Look I don’t have alot of actual chancing advise, but just keep one thing in mind. Alot of people on CC are kids, teenagers like you (me included). We are on CC (this thread at least) for one reason, and that is to get into a good college.

Don’t take the words all these people are saying as gospel. Some of it might be helpful, others might just be benefical to someone posting on the other side of the board. Just wanted to tell you that.

17

Couple thoughts:

Don’t let the folks here discourage you from applying to UPenn. Your stats are in range. You are a huge reach but so are MOST applicants. As long as you understand that, go for it! If you were an 1800 SAT and 3.5 then you are wasting your time.

I don’t believe in using the ED for a “sure thing” at a great school. It has to be a place you would love to attend without regrets.

Now, that said: You must know the rules on ED/EA/SCEA. Penn’s sight only says if you apply ED there you can’t apply ED elsewhere. It doesn’t mention EA. But, I would verify with Penn before you apply EA at schools simultaneous with ED at Penn.

Yes, many of Penn’s 25% ED are athletes and legacy but they are a school that is unashamedly an ED school that wants folks who want Penn. Keep that in mind. Just as examples, Harvard and Princeton explicitly state that there is no strategic advantage to SCEA. It simply lets you know their decision earlier so.

18

usastudent101, I think I’m still going to apply to ED to UPenn. I just like coming on here to entertain hypercritical viewpoints. It’s healthy for me to get another perspective on things.

But I’m not changing my life plan to whatever someone on the Internet tells me to, I just take away small lessons. For instance, from this thread, I learned that

  1. UPenn ED rates are skewed by "hook" applicants
  2. I should consider doing Tufts ED instead of UPenn ED