<p>yeah the problem is i go to a private school without honors or ap, so gpa cant be weighted, but the classes are as hard as honors or ap so no one gets a 4.0. in the last 5 years one girl got a 4.0</p>
<p>“You should also check to make sure if you’re allowed to double major in music and something else because the School of Music is separate from the other schools, I believe.”</p>
<p>You can get a dual degree at Michigan:</p>
<p>[UM</a> School of Music, Theatre & Dance - Dual Degree Programs](<a href=“http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/dual_degrees.htm]UM”>http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/dual_degrees.htm)</p>
<p>just hate to see these kind of comments from talented kids with 3.92 GPA’s(UW)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sorry, but Yale isn’t just looking at gpa. Most schools aren’t. Believe me, I definetly had Yale as an option, and I visited New Haven and the campus and searched through the blue book they mailed me, but I know the two kids that went there from my school last year and they were simply amazing people. I’m good at school, but I guess I’m just not good at life. Not good enough for Yale, at least.</p>
<p>In answer to the original question of U Michigan vs. privates like U Penn, Duke, Dartmouth, Johns Hopkins, I think that size and intimacy are major factors to consider about what an average undergrad will encounter on these campuses. U Michigan’s undergrad enrollment is 26,000+. This is the same size as the COMBINED enrollment of all 4 of these privates. </p>
<p>Top privates such as those mentioned, as well as virtually any of the USNWR Top 20, offer a different undergraduate environment than what you’ll get at a super large school like U Michigan. At places like U Penn, Duke, Dartmouth, JHU, the students are more consistently strong, the class sizes are materially smaller, the faculty involvement and the teaching is more geared to undergraduates, and the privates have more financial resources dedicated to things that are important to their undergrads (financial aid, advising, counseling, etc.). </p>
<p>U Michigan’s public mission makes comparisons difficult vs highly ranked privates. Placed in a larger context among national universities, U Michigan is one of the USA’s top public colleges and I think very highly of the school. Based on the criteria that is typically most important to undergrads (strong student peers, small classes, excellent classroom teaching, lots of resources dedicated to undergrads), it would rank among the nation’s top 30 or 40 undergraduate destinations. For an IS student, particularly if the Honors College were an option, I would encourage very high consideration.</p>
<p>This thread took a typical turn.</p>
<p>Was it something that hawkette said? I have her on ignore, so I really wouldn’t know…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You do know that most people who get in didn’t think they were good enough right? And if you realize that Yale’s looking at more than GPA, why does it matter that there are people better than you in the “academia world?” I personally thought I had the least shot at Yale out of all of my schools and look what happened. If you like the school, it’s worth an application if you’re in range. I certainly wouldn’t say Yale is out of your reach. Yale doesn’t have a music performance major but if you’re good enough you can take lessons with Yale School of Music (Yale’s prestigious graduate music school) professors.</p>
<p>In any case, I mentioned a bunch of other options above for you to consider.</p>
<p>UMich is on par with Duke…so says about 2000 academics. (Much to the chagrin of some Duke supporters).</p>
<p>To get back on topic, I don’t really mind big schools v. small schools. I’m applying to both types, I think. But hawkette, you did bring up a good point. It’s definitely one of the top PUBLIC universities on my list. I will take your points into consideration as I apply.</p>
<p>^^^hawkette likes to separate public from privates. Michigan is one of your top universities period!</p>
<p>AMERICA’S MOST PRODUCTIVE UNIVERSITIES
[PR:</a> America’s Most Productive Universities Ranked By Faculty Scholarly Productivity Index](<a href=“http://www.prwebdirect.com/releases/2007/1/prweb495682.php]PR:”>http://www.prwebdirect.com/releases/2007/1/prweb495682.php)
Duke: #9
Michigan: ???</p>
<p>REPRESENTATION AT PRIVATE EQUITY FIRMS
[Private Equity Firms & Universities: What’s the Relationship? | BankersBall. Where Investment Bankers Come to Party. Investment Banking Compensation & Salary](<a href=“Bankers Ball”>Bankers Ball)
Duke: #5
Michigan: #11</p>
<p>WORTH OF COLLEGE DEGREE ACCORDING TO PAYSCALE
[What’s</a> Your College Degree Worth? - BusinessWeek](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)
Duke: #11
Michigan: ??? (didn’t even make top 50 schools)</p>
<p>WSJ PROFESSIONAL FEEDER SCHOOL RATING
<a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights;
Duke: #6
Michigan: #30 (even though Michigan Law is used)</p>
<p>TOP COLLEGES THAT PRODUCE SCIENCE PhDs
[Top</a> 50 Colleges That Produce Science PhD’s | The College Solution Blog by Lynn O’Shaughnessy](<a href=“http://thecollegesolutionblog.com/2010/06/08/top-50-colleges-that-produce-science-phds/]Top”>Nothing found for 2010 06 08 Top-50-colleges-that-produce-science-phds)
Duke: #30
Michigan: ??? (didn’t crack the top 50 again)</p>
<p>TOP GLOBAL UNIVERSITIES BY USNWR
[World’s</a> Best Universities: Top 400 - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-universities/2010/02/25/worlds-best-universities-top-400.html]World’s”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-universities/2010/02/25/worlds-best-universities-top-400.html)
Duke: #14
Michigan: #19</p>
<p>2010 WORLD UNIVERSITY RANKING BY 4icu.org
[2010</a> World University Ranking | Top 200 Universities in the world](<a href=“http://www.4icu.org/top200/]2010”>http://www.4icu.org/top200/)
Duke: #14
Michigan: #44</p>
<p>TOP US COLLEGES BY MID-CAREER MEDIAN SALARY
[Top</a> US Colleges ? Graduate Salary Statistics](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp]Top”>http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp)
Duke: #12
Michigan: so low on the list that I stopped looking for it after a while (think it’s below some South Dakota school for technology)</p>
<p>Please save yourself the embarrassment and never mention this pedestrian state school in the same breath as an elite private school like Duke ever again.</p>
<p>^Now that’s a little exaggerated …</p>
<p>As a Dukie, I like UMich and would love to go there for grad school. For undergrad, I do feel that many of Duke’s resources outshine UMich but it’s not as if UMich is a “lowly school…”</p>
<p>“I like UMich and would love to go there for grad school.”</p>
<p>Right there! That’s the statement that I agree with. But for undergrad and especially high achiever in-staters, UMich is pretty much a safety school.</p>
<p>A safety school with a PA of 4.4 that is equal to Duke. Just because a school might be a safety for a high instate achiever, does not make it weak. You kids are too much.</p>
<p>For undergrad, I do feel that many of Duke’s resources outshine UMich but it’s not as if UMich is a “lowly school…” </p>
<p>Tell me about all of the departments that Duke outshines Michigan in for undergrad? Let’s start with engineering…Let me see, there is biomedical engineering and…then nothing. So if I were interested in engineering, and I lived instate for Michigan, why would I want to waste tons of money to go to a school that is WEAKER in what I was looking to major in?</p>
<p>I agree with rjkofnovi. It’s my safety, but that doesn’t mean it’s not good. And honestly lesdiablesbleus, I don’t rank duke much higher than UofM at all. In fact, since UofM is in ann arbor and Duke is in, what, durham?, I think the UofM community far outshines the one at Duke. That said, everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, but the main purpose of this thread was to compare UofM to other major private universities out there, not just Duke.</p>
<p>“A safety school with a PA of 4.4 that is equal to Duke.”</p>
<p>You do realize that PA score is probably affected by the reputation of its grad school, athletic reputation and history of the school. So, dont take PA too seriously.</p>
<p>“Just because a school might be a safety for a high instate achiever, does not make it weak.”</p>
<p>Never said it was a weak school. ;)</p>
<p>
Still quoting that same PA stat are we rjk? How about we look at some of the criticisms of the PA survey…</p>
<p>[Jacksonville</a> area college officials split over college ranking validity | jacksonville.com](<a href=“http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-06-20/story/locals-split-over-college-ranking-validity]Jacksonville”>http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-06-20/story/locals-split-over-college-ranking-validity)
“Whittum, who said he has personal knowledge that some universities cook the information to do better, refuses to participate in the “irrelevant” survey.”</p>
<p>“One part of the survey asks participants to rate many different schools in the country, but Whittum thinks it is impossible to know the academic strengths of that many universities.”</p>
<p>“When it comes to the reputation surveys rating schools, nobody has the knowledge of all those schools,” he said."</p>
<p>[Did</a> Clemson game the U.S. News rankings? - Brainiac - The Boston Globe](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/2009/06/did_clemson_gam.html]Did”>http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/2009/06/did_clemson_gam.html)
“Then Watt shocked the audience by saying that, on surveys distributed by U.S. News, the Clemson brass “rates all programs other than Clemson below average,” adding: “And I’m confident my president is not the only one who does that.” (The online magazine said Watt seemed aware of the cynicism of what she was describing, and not entirely happy with it.)”</p>
<p>So, do you really want to cite a ranking that is easily manipulable, based on incomplete knowledge and whose ordering is mainly derived from the strength of the graduate programs to argue that UMich is on par with Duke?</p>
<p>
No employer hires and no PhD program selects college grads based on the strength of the department they majored in during undergrad, but rather they look at the overall quality of the school and/or the strength of the student body. There are more engineering companies that recruit at Duke than there are students interested in those jobs.</p>
<p>Duke Engineering is extremely interdisciplinary and you’ll have a plethora of opportunities to do hands-on research. Many grads go into finance, consulting and academia rather in addition to the industry itself, which means that the program is very flexible and adapts well to a student’s changing career interests.</p>
<p>By the same logic, Harvard Engineering is weaker than UofM Engineering so should a student pick the latter over the former?</p>