<p>Curious... our senator got the Masters at UMich.
I was just wondering if it is at the same league as Harvard & Stanford...(don't include the "acceptance rating")</p>
<p>At the graduate level, Michigan is a “peer” of the top institutions in this country. It all depends on what discipline you’re comparing schools. Graduate studies are more specialized, of course, than undergraduate ones.</p>
<p>No. Umich is not on par with the ivies. The average student at the ivies is certainly more intelligent than the average student at Umich.</p>
<p>^^^^^Says the intelligence expert giants92. The op was indicating one of his senators has a masters degree from Michigan. You obviously have no clue about the strength of graduate programs across the board in Ann Arbor. They are up there with the nations best. Certainly not every Ivy League school is know for their strong graduate programs.</p>
<p>Yes, University of Michigan is a peer school to Harvard and Stanford.</p>
<p>Says rjkofnovi, the person who has no idea whether I was referring to graduate or undergraduate. For your information, I was referring to undergraduate. I am WELL aware that Michigan is at the top of many graduate programs, thank you very much.</p>
<p>vicelark, academically, Michigan is on par with, and comparable, to some Ivies. </p>
<p>Harvard and Stanford (not an Ivy by the way) are, in my opinion, a little stronger than Michigan. As are Princeton and Yale. </p>
<p>Brown and Dartmouth are similar in quality, but completely different in most other ways, so they are not comparable.</p>
<p>If I were to compare Michigan to an Ivy, it would be to Columbia, Cornell or Penn.</p>
<p>If you are in-state, it is definitely the best-deal college for the average middle-class family. Also, graduate schools love Michigan under-grads <3</p>
<p>giants92 said:</p>
<p>“Says rjkofnovi, the person who has no idea whether I was referring to graduate or undergraduate. For your information, I was referring to undergraduate. I am WELL aware that Michigan is at the top of many graduate programs, thank you very much.”</p>
<p>Says the intelligence expert who obviously has a reading comprehension problem. The OP was talking about a senator who got his/her, “masters degree at Michigan.” In my realm of thinking, that indicates a question about the graduate school program. My comments were based on that remark. Your comments were based on your own personal bias’ with out a reference to the original statement. Nice try backpedaling.</p>
<p>Says the myopic one, who thinks every post on this forum must fully and only address a question asked previously in a thread. My reading comprehension skills are quite fine. From now on I will fully include every detail in my thoughts for rjkofnovi so he doesn’t get confused.</p>
<p>^^^Now that’s more like it. Accurately answering a question that was originally posed on a thread is what we’re supposed to be doing here, oh confused one.</p>
<p>The graduate programs by far are on par with some of the best ivies out there as is the institution as a whole, but , after 3 years, I would say that the undergraduate student body is not on par with those of ivies, except perhaps the top 15% of students (honors, engin, ross, etc).</p>
<p>FordGT. I don’t think anyone feels that Michigan’s student body overall is of the same quality as those uppers Ivies like; H,Y, or P at the undergraduate level. There are still five other schools where Michigan is definitely competitive however IMO.</p>
<p>Michigan has a big disadvantage that puts them below the Ivies (HYP): population.
Michigan just has too many students, I mean yes at time that doesn’t matter but there are classes are just extremely big (not it doesn’t mean the ivies don’t have that class that sometimes have a large number of students). But seriously the fact that Michigan has twice the number of faculty of the top Ivies but 4 times the number of students (undergrad + grad) a huge disadvantage. It would be much easier and even faster (IMO) to learn in a classroom environment that contains less kids. UM’s undergrad has 4-5 times as many kids as top Ivies and that just causes the class sizes to be bigger, a huge disadvantage (again IMO). Because the teacher sets the pace of learning, not the student and getting help from the teacher would be harder than at top Ivies. I think a smaller class size environment would allow students to set the pace because if more students are excelling, then the pace of learning can be faster or the topic can be learn more in depth and also, it would be easier to ask teacher for support since because the teacher would have to manage less students.</p>
<p>Ah ignorant rjkofnovi… clearly has not realized the abundant posts in threads that stray far from specific questions asked in the beginning of them.</p>
<p>FordGT hits it about right. I would say only about the top 15-20% are comparable with the ivies as a whole at the undergraduate level.</p>
<p>^ The reason for this is likely that the University of Michigan is, after all, a public university. They could reject more in state students and take more out of state students with higher stats to try to build a university at par with the Ivies but would sacrifice their connection to Michigan and its residents. I think that what is most important is that the University of Michigan is an extremely high-caliber school that is accessible to the both in state and out of state students, serving its function as a public university and as a research university aimed at attracting the brightest students and researchers from the nation.</p>
<p>And Ford GT is right, the top programs at U of M are on par with the Ivies, presenting an amazing educational opportunity for all who are fortunate enough to gain admission to these top opportunities.</p>
<p>“I would say that the undergraduate student body is not on par with those of ivies, except perhaps the top 15% of students (honors, engin, ross, etc).”</p>
<p>FordGT, either you aren’t aware of how strong the top 15% is at Michigan, or you seriously (and I mean SERIOUSLY) overrate the the strength of the students at the Ivy League. The mid 50% of the top 15% students at Michigan graduate in the top 1% of their high school class with 4.0 unweighed GPAs and have SAT ranges of 1450-1550 and ACT ranges of 33-35. Can you name me a single Ivy League that has higher average ranges? </p>
<p>The top 50% of the students at Michigan graduated in the top 5% of their high school class with 3.9+ unweighed GPAs and with SAT scores ranging between 1330-1600 and ACT scores ranging between 29-36. That’s roughly equal to the top 75% of the students at Brown, Columbia, Cornell and Penn. 25% of students at those 4 Ivies have lower stats that Michigan’s top 75%. In other words, the top 50% (not 15%) of the students at Michigan are comprable to students at those 4 Ivy League.</p>
<p>MICHIGAN
Class rank: 92% graduated in the top 10% of their high school class
SAT (mid 50%): 1230-1430 (single test)
ACT (mid 50%): 27-31</p>
<p>BROWN
Class rank: 93% graduated in the top 10% of their high school class
SAT (mid 50%): 1320-1540 (superscored)
ACT (mid 50%): 28-33</p>
<p>CORNELL
Class rank: 88% graduated in the top 10% of their high school class
SAT: 1300-1500 (superscored)
ACT: 29-33</p>
<p>Columbia and Penn do not officially publish common data sets, which is highly suspicious. Are they hiding something?</p>
<p>From my in-depth analysis of admissions at several universities, incudling my own two universities (Cornell and Michigan), I would say that 50%-75% (not 15%) of the undergrads enrolled in the colleges of LSA, Engineering and Ross at Michigan (Art, Education, Kinesiology, Music and Nursing have no Ivy League equivallent so it is not fair to include them in the mix) are equal to the student bodies at Brown, Columbia, Cornell and Penn. </p>
<p>At any rate, student body strength does not determine quality of institution…not where it matters anyway. Academe and the corporate world expect each individual that presents her/himself to pay their dues and perform. As such, they will not assume one is going to success simply because they graduated from a university with a high concentration of accomplished students. They will approach each person, regardless of university affiliation, individually and test their ability to learn and perform. At a school like Michigan, there will be sufficiently talented individual to push students to learn at the highest level and to attract recruiters from the most exclusive companies on a frequent basis. Companies like McKinsey list only 5-10 universities nationwide as “strategic campuses” and Michigan is one of them.</p>
<p>I would think McKinsey mainly recruits at Ross, which is important to note.</p>
<p>Actually giants, McKinsey recruits at the College of LSA and Engineering too. All three colleges are considered strategic by McKinsey. Same goes for most Management Consulting firms and Investment Banks. </p>
<p><a href=“http://career.engin.umich.edu/annualReport/Annual_Report0708.pdf[/url]”>http://career.engin.umich.edu/annualReport/Annual_Report0708.pdf</a></p>
<p>Scroll down to pages 11-14 and see the list of companies that actively recruit purely at the Michigan College of Engineering. Bain, BCG, Citigroup, Goldman Sacks, JP Morgan, McKinsey, Mercer and Morgan Stanley are all there.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, LSA does not keep track of corporate recruitment activity or of job placements. I wish they did, but they don’t. However, I can assure you that they most certainly recruit LSA heavily. </p>
<p>At any rate, McKinsey only considers another 6 universities (Harvard, MIT, Penn, Princeton, Stanford and Yale) as “strategic”. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.vault.com/nr/newsmain.jsp?nr_page=3&ch_id=252&article_id=14364421&cat_id=1085[/url]”>http://www.vault.com/nr/newsmain.jsp?nr_page=3&ch_id=252&article_id=14364421&cat_id=1085</a></p>
<p>And we are talking undergraduate placement, not MBA placement. There is no mention of Wharton or Ross or Sloan in the case of the schools that have BBA programs. That’s because McKinsey actuallyprefers non-Business majors. I remember Goldman Sachs used to recruit more LSA students than BBA students back in my day at Michigan. This is no little thing Giants. It is a big deal that McKinsey places Michigan on the same special list as Harvard, MIT, Penn, Princeton, Stanford and Yale. Some of you seriously underestimate Michigan. Give it some credit.</p>
<p>And academe (graduate school admissions committees) generally considers Michigan one of the top 10 or top 15 universities in the nation. I challenge you to contact any top 10 graduate programs (MBA, Law, Medical, Engineering etc…) and ask them which universities send the mosts tudents to their programs. They will almost always list Michigan among them. I know…I have contacted them myself. That’s precisely because Michigan students perform. The notion that somehow, only 15% of Michigan students are capable is ridiculous. Like I said, well over 50% of Michigan students enrolled in the colleges of LSA, Engineering and Business are of the highest caliber.</p>
<p>University of Michigan- Ann Arbor student body is brilliant, though I wouldn’t say their student body is easily match with University of Pennslyvania. </p>
<p>This is coming from a student who highly prefers University of Michigan- Ann Arbor over University of Pennslyvania.</p>