How hard is it to get into graduate school without research?

<p>I go to a top-25 university but have been having trouble finding research opportunities that are substantial. I'm a math/computer science major, mostly interested in theoretical computer science, but all the projects that are advertised seem to either be like, numerical analysis projects or like coding projects, neither of which I have the skills for or are interested in/would even be relevant. I've been having trouble finding any research opportunity that I would be interested in. All I have is a coding project that I wasn't interested in, and last summer I went to an REU where we didn't accomplish much (though I learned a lot). I'm doing pretty well in my classes though, and people seem to claim that my school has grade deflation. How much will this hurt me in graduate school admissions? Will it help at all that I'm at least going to a pretty well-regarded school with tough classes?</p>

<p>PhD or MS?</p>

<p>If it’s PhD, this is pretty relevant, especially for CS.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~harchol/gradschooltalk.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~harchol/gradschooltalk.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>PhD. And I’ve read that already and it mentions that they throw out your application if you don’t have any research experience. That’s why I’m kind of scared.</p>

<p>I’m in the biomedical sciences, but I’d say the advice I got from most programs I was applying to (particularly citing my research experience, which was only ~1 year when I applied) is relevant.</p>

<p>Paraphrased: “You’re going for a PhD, which means a ton of research; we want to make sure you know what you’re committing yourself to before we accept you, both because we don’t want to waste both our times if it’s not the right career path for you, and because we don’t want to spend the first year teaching you the basics.”</p>

<p>It’s not a huge deal if it’s relevant to your eventual interests: if it is, cool; if not, programs know that interests often change. You can always spin it as contributing to your view of research and narrowing your interests for grad school.</p>

<p>In short: yes, research does tend to be a big deal (especially if they say they’ll throw your application out without it!!).</p>

<p>Everybody starts out doing something that isn’t 100% relevant. My first research job (as a psychologist) was also coding data. Over time, you work your way up to doing more interesting things.</p>

<p>If you see a research opportunity in your field that will give you at least some skills that will be relevant for graduate school, jump on it. You never know what you will need. I used MATLAB in my research internship and it ended up being fairly useful.</p>

<p>I’m not in CS but in my field not having any research experience would put you at the bottom of the barrel.</p>

<p>Getting research experience in theoretical CS is much harder than in systems— there’s less funding, fewer professors, and undergrads don’t really have as much to contribute. In theory it’s not uncommon for grad students to first publish in their 2nd or 3rd year.</p>

<p>However, getting admitted specifically as a theory student is also harder, because there are fewer openings. </p>

<p>Shoot some emails to theory profs at your school, but don’t expect anything. Your best bet is REU’s. If you can get research anywhere else in CS, I would go for it.</p>

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<p>But they are research opportunities, are they not. Prove yourself on small projects before you get to work on something more substantial. </p>

<p>DS, as a second term freshman (CMU) went around to various professors and asked for a position. One of them said yes, but without pay, 1 credit per term. Sophomore year he got to work with prof, that lead to him to being asked to complete and refine a grad project for his rising junior summer. He goes to grad school with a thesis that has correlation to his undergrad job. </p>

<p>Gets a job with his undergrad prof. </p>

<p>Odd thing is that he only has a medium interest in what he did and what he’s now doing. But how he’s doing is very good. He has more interest in his hobbies and in his degreed major. He’s an engineer, he does what he’s supposed to do–find solutions.</p>

<p>I mean, the projects were in the biology department and in another university, so I don’t see how those would prove myself to math professors.</p>

<p>But how much would taking a lot of grad classes and doing well on them help? I’m planning on taking like, 10-12 graduate classes before I graduate, and I just got an A in the one I’m taking now so I don’t think this plan is too far-fetched.</p>

<p>^^^ I see no purpose to taking 10-12 graduate CLASSES for your undergrad. 10-12 graduate CREDITS is no big deal, but taking 10-12 classes might actually hurt you a bit. Also, why would you want to do a thing like that? 12 graduate classes is the equivalent of a Masters. Why do all that work without being awarded the degree?</p>

<p>I’m actually taking 3 grad classes as part of my undergrad degree, but my advisor warned my not to take more than that because I could run into issues later of pursuing a masters. Of course he could be referring to taking classes at the same school for both BS and MS, but you never know what could happen.</p>

<p>Why would it hurt me? There’s not that many other classes to take (unless I wanted to like double major or something), and a few are even graduation requirements for my major.</p>

<p>Why worry about research? If you’re that good, you’ll find opportunities.</p>

<p>Here’s why research experience is so important, and it’s something many students do not realize until they get to graduate school: being a graduate student is VERY different than being an undergraduate. Yes, you take courses, but it is no longer about being a good student (although you have to do well); it’s about going beyond coursework into the realm of original, independent research and thinking. An excellent undergraduate doesn’t always make a good graduate student. Programs want evidence that an applicant knows what it is to research and has the skills to take his/her scholarship to the next level. Taking graduate courses doesn’t provide this evidence. That’s why, to most top programs, a 3.5 is as good as a 4.0. And why GRE scores aren’t weighed as heavily as research experience and LORs. So, while your graduate-level courses won’t hurt you, the programs you apply to may wonder why you spent so much time on coursework and no/little time on research. They would much rather see you take a lighter course load and work with a professor than add another graduate-level course.</p>

<p>I think you should ask yourself why you would like a PhD. Is it the idea of attaining the degree that interests you or the idea of pursuing a career in independent research or a requirement for some other career objective? </p>

<p>I would think if you’re interested in pursuing a research career you would first attempt research (any type of research) to see what you’re getting yourself into. Regardless of whether a graduate program will accept you without research experience, you would be at a huge disadvantage without the experience. </p>

<p>As the others have said, there are research opportunities available even though they may be slightly outside of your field or of little interest to you now but it’s like the saying “Don’t knock it, 'til you try it”…</p>