<p>And how much has UM raised tuition for OOS over the last 4 years???
UW is not the only public with tuition issues and rules some people find inconvenient. To think all is sunny over the hill is just fatuous. Other schools are leaving vacancies open and cutting classes and everything else in sight. UW is hiring more faculty in critical areas and replacing people as they leave. Do some more investigation of Plan B before you think it’s the Emerald City–it might be smoke and mirrors.</p>
<p>Look, I’d like to see this thing rectified systemically for the '10/'11 academic year, but there’s no doubt it’s one of those glitches/loopholes that concerns a fairly small percentage of all UW undergrad students (but probably more than 1000 when you think about it), and even then only for a semester, so it doesn’t attract that much attention…except on here…:)</p>
<p>This type of autocratic Catch-22 is maddening, but students like my D and Cryto kind of go with the flow. UW-Madison’s course offerings are SO varied & wide-ranging that if there’s a frosh-only roadblock, there are tons of options–really.</p>
<p>
Yeah, that’s College Confidential for ya… those pesky high achievers. ;)</p>
<p>I am concerned that this thread seems to have become about “bashing UW.” All schools (and businesses and governments) have glitches and strengths/weakenesses. I do think it is important to be aware as well as take corrective action and make adjustments when something isn’t working well, but just because an issue(s) arises it does not mean it is not a wonderful school (which it is). And, a great place can always be better and respond to changes and problems. There seem to be some unintended consequences around the increasing number of kids coming in with a lot of credits which need to be addressed. Perhaps somehow balancing years in residence AT school with status upon admission (so, a transfer could have the same amount of time in residence but his/her status upon admission would be as a sophomore or jr. whereas a freshman with many credits may share the same time in residence but applied and was admitted as a freshman and status was freshman - 1st year STUDENT- when he/she matriculated and only “became” a soph or jr. when credits applied in the fall). AP/Dual enrollment shouldn’t disadvantage kids - and, the early reg is great - just somehow don’t block students with freshman admit status from taking fresh/soph classes whereas a jr. transfer status is not a first year college student, if that makes sense.</p>
<p>I want to be clear that while we were completely taken by surprise last week when son had some scheduling issues and “lock-outs,” and we have some concerns about his status as it relates to applying to the B-school (should he choose to do that), he (and we) love UW. Overall, son has had a great experience so far - he loves his classes, the endless opportunities, roommate, football games, music concerts, and the whole vibe of living in Madison. It is great to have earlier registration and the huge variety of classes offered at a big U are a plus. And, given that he went in with diverse interests and a number of potential majors, the fact that UW is strong in all the areas he is considering was a significant factor in his decison to attend. When he chose a large university we discussed the issues of large classes, bureacracy, and the need to advocate for oneself. He wanted a big place and thought he’d feel stifled and “grow out of” some of his smaller choices. It is a learning experience to have to handle hurdles and bumps in the road, like jnm suggested. And, in fact, he does now have a pretty good selection of courses for which he is registered for Spring - and it will NOT be an empty or wasted semester for him. It may not be for everyone, but he would make the same choice again tomorrow. And, like jnm’s daughter and Cryto, he pretty much goes with the flow. He is NOT unhappy or angry, just could use a bit of assistance understanding and navigating.</p>
<p>My concern and questions lie largely in the area of school and major - this is not to complain, but SOLVE and understand… I’ll use the business school as an example. We knew going in that application is competitive and not direct admit - so be it, he knew it going in and chose. However, it seems crazy and never even occurred to us (nor do I recall it ever mentioned or brought up) that son would not be competing for the “new, empty” sophomore class when he applies in the spring (should he choose to do so). He would be in exactly the same situation as all other new soph admits in needing to take 1st semester Acctg, Intro Finance, Intro Mktg, Gen Business, etc… (I presume Engineering would be similar?) and would NOT be taking the higher level b-classes most jrs or srs would take. His credits were for things like French and History. So, why would he have to apply to get into the B-school and be considered in the Jr b-school class? To have to compete fairly with peers to get in is fine. To be blocked, due to no fault of one’s own, from an already full class (who presumably is a year ahead in the b-classes they’d need and want to take for the most part anyway) doesn’t seem to make sense. It is just a little confusing. It may be that a “fix” is needed OR it may be that he simply needs some guidance or assistance - to whom should he speak? It is a large place with many pieces to navigate. There is a lot to figure out and balance, especially as a first semester freshman away for the first time - he is trying to register, figure out his future, prepare for his two exams and 8-page paper he has had over the past 5 days, do laundry, learn to balance school with social time, etc… So, it is HIS life to figure out, but as parents and school advisors, a little guidance as they grow and learn is important. I believe it is things like this that will make him a stong, independent thinker and adult. I expect him to work hard. And, I expect the school to work with the students and respond to them, support them, and assist them. No place is perfect or all things to all people. But, despite its glitches or imperfections (which is true everywhere in the “real” world) , Wisconsin is a great school and place. This forum is a great place for info and support, but I’d hate for someone reading this thread to pass on UW because of a discussion relating to a small piece of the whole picture.</p>
<p>Travelfun, thanks for adding some balance to the issue.
I heard back today from the Dean of L&S and he has sent the message on to several high level people for investigation and action. I think that’s prettty responsive.</p>
<p>I also found a couple typos in my note to him and feel very ill about that.</p>
<p>Thank you, Barrons. One of the reasons I’ve posted in such detail is because I know you are on here and may be in the position to share some of this with those who can make a difference. It is not my intention to just add “noise.” </p>
<p>(Oh, and don’t fret over the typos - no one is perfect - we are all human!)</p>
<p>Happy Thanksgiving to ALL and GO BADGERS!</p>
<p>I recall having issues because I was a Freshman and lower on the totem pole (hence shut out of pre-req classes). The biggest issue was a tight schedule with all the science lab classes I was required to take. And I always took a class in the summer because occasionally I would have to drop a class during the year. Somehow I survived it all and graduated in 4 years. My biggest mistakes were taking some classes from thee worst professors (to fit classes into my schedule)…I should have checked them out first. I strongly recommend this!</p>
<p>Way to go Barrons! Let us know if you hear anything. Hopefully, the Dean of L&S will raise this issue with the Dean of Engineering. I am assuming with all that brain power they can work it out.</p>
<p>If he just attends the classes and studies then there should be no problems whatsoever…</p>
<p>
That contradicts UW’s info. On average, students in most majors need more than 4 years to earn their degrees.
<a href=“http://apa.wisc.edu/degrees/TTD_byMajor_Undergraduate_0308.pdf[/url]”>http://apa.wisc.edu/degrees/TTD_byMajor_Undergraduate_0308.pdf</a></p>
<p>First of all, my son is a 5th year senior by choice as he decided to add a certificate to his major. But, nearly all of his friends (not engineering) graduated in 4 years. He’s very lonely this year! He’ll be graduating after this semester.</p>
<p>My daughter is a sophmore and is about to apply in to her major. She’s extremely nervous because many of the students she’s competing with are transfer students from less competitive schools. Apparently, their grades are counted the same as hers and she is very worried that their grade point averages will be higher. She also had to register for Spring classes with the assumption that she will get in her major. If she doesn’t I’m not sure what she’ll do as most classes will be closed. She doesn’t find out until January.</p>
<p>How are semesters abroad, (which may or may not advance you in your major), factored into the table referenced by JiffsMom and how do you factor in students like Pawn’s son who chose to take a 5th year? I don’t think looking at a table proves anything whatsoever regarding how difficult it is to graduate in 4 years if you want to. CalMom05 it is not a problem graduating in four years. The only problem is convincing your child that they want to!</p>
<p>An info snapshot of progress made by first year students, entering UW in the fall of 2002:
[College</a> Portraits - University of Wisconsin - Madison - Undergraduate Success & Progress Rate Table](<a href=“http://www.collegeportraits.org/WI/UW-Madison/tracker]College”>http://www.collegeportraits.org/WI/UW-Madison/tracker)</p>
<p>49.3% graduated within 4 years
76.7% within 5 years
80.2% within 6 years</p>
<p>I didn’t major in math, but I think that means 49.3% graduated in 3.5 years. Not bad. Plus, you get to attend a university in which you know your classmates were admitted based on merit rather than connections as in the the state university to the south.</p>
<p>Illinois just got caught. That’s the only difference.</p>
<p>What do you know about similar issues at UW Madison?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, it doesn’t mean 49.3% graduated in 3.5 years. That’s the rate of students who graduate in 4 years. Ask anyone who’s been to a UW graduation in spring - there’s not fewer students than there is in December. There’s only one day of winter graduation ceremonies, and three days of ceremonies in the spring:
[Commencement</a> - University of Wisconsin-Madison](<a href=“http://www.secfac.wisc.edu/commence/GeneralInformation.htm]Commencement”>http://www.secfac.wisc.edu/commence/GeneralInformation.htm)</p>
<p>And since you bring it up…
As far as ‘non-meritorious’ admits to UIUC, it hasn’t seemed to impact UIUC’s 4 year graduation rate - note that it’s much higher than UW’s and the universities are equally ranked by US News:
64.1% graduate within 4 years
79.8% within 5
81.6% within 6
[College</a> Portraits - University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign - Undergraduate Success & Progress Rate Table](<a href=“http://www.collegeportraits.org/IL/Illinois/tracker]College”>http://www.collegeportraits.org/IL/Illinois/tracker)</p>
<p>UIUC’s AP credit policy is much tougher than UW’s, as well. UIUC awards less credit (none, in most cases) for scores below 4 on the AP exams
UIUC:
[U</a> of I Admissions: Advanced Placement](<a href=“http://admissions.illinois.edu/academics/placement_AP.html]U”>Academics, Undergraduate Admissions, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign)
UW:
[Advanced</a> Credit - Office of Admissions at the University of Wisconsin-Madison](<a href=“http://www.admissions.wisc.edu/APIB.php#ap]Advanced”>http://www.admissions.wisc.edu/APIB.php#ap)</p>
<p>So, more students (14.8%) are graduating from UIUC in 4 years, even with a less favorable AP credit policy.</p>
<p>Great, you must be overjoyed your child is attending UIUC. Please proceed to that forum and end your pathological vendetta against UW Madison.</p>
<p>Moses Smell The Roses, when did this thread get hijacked to turn into a faux-competition between UIUC & UW-Madison?</p>
<p>My D chose UW over UIUC. We researched both places to the nth degree, visited both numerous times. I’m happy with her choice. So is she. Case closed. Let’s move on.</p>
<p>Yikes! This is one problem that didn’t occur to me. D was already accepted but she’ll be coming in with 52 credits from AP’s + Multivariable Calculus + Linear Algebra. </p>
<p>She’s planning to major in CS + Linguistics, but is also considering math and would want to take the Honors theoretical math sequence 275-276. </p>
<p>She plans to apply to the L&S Honors. What courses would she get locked out of? Would she get locked out of Math 276 second term? </p>
<p>This would make Wisconsin a most unattractive choice. </p>
<p>What a mess!</p>