How hard is it to graduate in 4 yrs at UW?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Wisconsin
81

<p>For many dual enrolled students, their college credits are on college transcripts - NOT their high school transcripts. How are credits from another college’s transcripts not considered transfers from matriculated (enrolled and registered) students? </p>

<p>Look at the etymology for matriculate, and the meaning will become more clear to you.
[Online</a> Etymology Dictionary](<a href=“matriculate | Etymology of matriculate by etymonline”>matriculate | Etymology of matriculate by etymonline)</p>

<p>As an example, notice on the following EMU form that dual enrolled students are not categorized as non-matriculated students.
<a href=“http://www.emich.edu/registrar/forms/reenroll.pdf[/url]”>http://www.emich.edu/registrar/forms/reenroll.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Further clarifying the meaning of non-matriculated:
*"A student who is enrolled in classes at Eastern Michigan University but not admitted to the University through the regular admission process is considered a nonmatriculated student. </p>

<p>A nonmatriculated student is admitted to take a course or courses for one semester only. Subsequent enrollments necessitate regular admission status."*
[Eastern</a> Michigan University: Board Policy Manual](<a href=“http://www.emich.edu/policies/chapter7/7-1-3.html]Eastern”>http://www.emich.edu/policies/chapter7/7-1-3.html)</p>

82

<p>Oh come on! We’re at the point of slicing and dicing words now are we? Isn’t that a good indicator that this argument has played itself out? Stow your ego, and move on. All points have been made…it’s over…finito…done. This is WAY past tedious. Jeez!</p>

83

<p>I agree with Balthezar.</p>

<p>But for Jiffsmom I think you’re misreading the EMU info you’re linking to and quoting. On the re-enrollment form you linked to, previously dual enrolled are not to fill it out, they need a regular admissions form. And in your quote, a dual enrolled student would not have been admitted through the regular admission process and would be non-matriculated.</p>

84

<p>What counts is UW’s usage, regardless of any official dictionary definitions. There will always be exceptions to technically correct usage, too many ways to be technically in error. The best source is UW itself, regardless of what any other university chooses as its definition UW’s usage is what matters. There will always be confusing circumstances in this world- it is not worth the time and effort it would take to cover every imaginable scenario- one reason people, not computers, have the ultimate say so. Barrons said it- transfer status.</p>

85

<p>Yes, UW’s usage is what counts and there has been no definitive answer from the B-school. Perhaps barrons can obtain that, and it would also help if the information they publish on their website was more precise. This would help everyone, current students and prospective applicants.</p>

<p>I disagree that I’m misreading EMU’s info. The key to understanding this is bolded and underscored in the 2nd part of their statement:
*"A student who is enrolled in classes at Eastern Michigan University but not admitted to the University through the regular admission process is considered a nonmatriculated student. </p>

<p>A nonmatriculated student is admitted to take a course or courses for one semester only. Subsequent enrollments necessitate regular admission status."*
[Eastern</a> Michigan University: Board Policy Manual](<a href=“http://www.emich.edu/policies/chapter7/7-1-3.html]Eastern”>http://www.emich.edu/policies/chapter7/7-1-3.html)</p>

<p>Dual enrolled students typically take classes for both semesters (for one or more years, as needed), not just one semester. The reason dual enrolled students are required to have a matriculated status in many cases is because colleges/universities need to evaluate dual enrolled students as to correct course placement, having met course pre-reqs, adequate prior achievement levels (submitted ACT or SAT scores), etc., so that the dual enrolled students do not hold back or lower the academic level of the class. It should be obvious to anyone why that’s necessary.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that UW’s current policies are not structured to support highly achieving students - first year students with a lot of incoming credits are stuck in limbo when they’re locked out of classes limited to freshmen only and are also blocked from taking classes in their intended major because they haven’t yet been admitted to the school/program. They can’t take the required pre-reqs they need, and can’t move forward in areas where they have met them. </p>

<p>AxeBack has it pegged, and has described the situation my daughter’s friends from high school and AxeBack’s own friends report:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063557177-post15.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063557177-post15.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Clearly, some have grown bored with this topic… perhaps because the problems don’t apply to them, or anyone they know. If so, they’re free to scroll on by. No need to read it if it doesn’t apply to or interest them. But please understand that this is a legitimate, serious problem for some students (particularly OOS), who perhaps don’t have an extra $17,500 or $35,000 to spend waiting for a semester or two to take classes they’re prepared to take, but can’t, because of obsolete and stifling UW policies. There’s a reason so many fewer UW students graduate in 4 years than do UIUC students, despite the fact that UW students overwhelmingly report plans to enter the workforce after graduation while more UIUC students plan to continue on in school to do graduate course work.
[College</a> Portraits - University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign - Future Plans of Bachelor’s Degree Recipients](<a href=“http://www.collegeportraits.org/IL/Illinois/future_plans]College”>http://www.collegeportraits.org/IL/Illinois/future_plans)
[College</a> Portraits - University of Wisconsin - Madison - Future Plans of Bachelor’s Degree Recipients](<a href=“http://www.collegeportraits.org/WI/UW-Madison/future_plans]College”>http://www.collegeportraits.org/WI/UW-Madison/future_plans)</p>

<p>UW’s problems in this regard need to be addressed.</p>

86

<p>4-year graduation rates for 2002 and 2007, and other data like median SAT scores, the percentage of underrepresented minority students, and the amount each institution spends on student-related expenditures (instruction, student services, academic support, etc.) for UW, UIUC, UNC, Michigan, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and UCSD:
[The</a> Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=110635,110662,110680,145637,240444,199120,170976&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC]The”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=110635,110662,110680,145637,240444,199120,170976&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC)</p>

87

<p>More complete Education Trust 4-year graduation rate and other data comparison of the US News top 10 publics (added U VA, William and Mary, and GA Tech):
[The</a> Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC]The”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC)</p>

88

<p>Would you please just have your kid transfer and leave us alone. We are bored with YOU.</p>

89

<p>As a UW Senior in the business school, I have read this whole thread and have a few comments to make. I came into college with 58 credits between AP classes, retrocredits, and a few college classes I took in high school. I was able to apply to the business school after my freshman year. This was before sophomore admits, so I was a year younger than most of the applying class. I am graduating with a business and English degree in 3.5 years. </p>

<p>To answer the original question about it being difficult to graduate in four years, my answer is that it is not difficult at all, especially if you are time-conscious. Of my friends, the only one taking longer than four did so because of a semester-long internship. For most people who graduate in more than four years, it is because of a decision they personally made, not something forced upon them by the university, like a change of major, a semester abroad, adding a second major, etc. Actually, I can think of three people off the top of my head who took a semester abroad and still managed to graduate in four years.</p>

<p>As for freshman only classes, I did not run into this issue at all, although I do know it exists. As people have previously stated, e-mailing the professor or the department usually works. I think this is more of an issue on the Engineering School, although I don’t remember any of my engineering friends with lots of APs having much trouble either.</p>

<p>As far as “wasting a semester” if you apply to the business school early, this is simply NOT TRUE. Business classes open to already admitted students, then application decisions are known, and finally business classes open to all students. When you apply to the business school, you basically have to evaluate if you think you’ll get in or not. For me, I was fairly confident I would get in on my first try. Therefore, I didn’t register for any classes on my registration date, found out I did get in, and then registered for business classes when everyone else was allowed to. For students that aren’t so confident about their chances, the best option is to have a “Plan B” and register for classes as if you are not accepted. Yes, it is unfortunate to have to wait longer to register, but everyone who applies together is in the same boat. You might have a less than desirable schedule, but you do not waste any time, let alone a semester.</p>

<p>Furthermore, this “problem” will essentially go away in the coming years. Now that students can apply after freshman year, they will still have many non-business classes to take and can register for those classes when they are unsure of their admittance status.</p>

<p>I don’t know much about the new sophomore admissions, but I think it would be more constructive for students to send a quick e-mail to an adviser than argue about definitions. I have found them all to be very responsive and helpful, and I’m sure they could clear up the confusion on a student by student basis.</p>

<p>I just can’t say enough good things about the business school in general. I will be honest and say that UW was a safety school for me, and while I was excited to go there, I also expected to be smarter and more accomplished than the majority of my classmates. This is not the case, at least in the business school. The students are all incredibly smart, and the faculty is exceptional. While the issues raised in this thread are legitimate, it would be a shame for a student to not attend UW because of them.</p>

90

<p>Thank you all for your comments. It is always wise to be educated on some of these issues. After reading all of the posts and speaking with the advisor from the engineering dept., I feel confident that we will not have to pay for more than 8 semesters OOS tuition, which was the reason I asked the question in the first place. I also believe the UW admininstration will address some of the issues raised here. It is still the first choice school for my son.</p>

91

<p>

Oh, yes… of course… why bother comparing peer schools? Why look at the actual school-reported data? Especially when UW’s stats come out not looking too good, comparatively.</p>

<p>I answered the topic question, “How hard is it to graduate in 4 yrs at UW?” with links to the factual data, and those facts ‘bore’ you. That’s a sad response, but as you work so closely with UW, it goes a long way towards explaining why these problems persist year after year. Firmly stick your head back in the sand and continue on unaware, as before. That’ll work.</p>

92

<p>The links are irrelevant to UW for the most part. Agree with barrons about your posts on this thread.</p>

93

<p>Agree with barron’s comments- most links posted are irrelevant to UW. Please stop your complaing Jiff…, help, not showing off your other connections, is appreciated.</p>

<p>Thanks for your excellent post badgergirl- informative and helpful to many.</p>

94

<p>

How is comparing the 4-year graduation rate of the top 10 public colleges/universities not relevant to UW? UW is on an academic par with the other top 10, isn’t it?</p>

<p>Here are the 4-year graduation rates of the top 10 again for those interested in financially planning the cost of their/their child’s college education:
[The</a> Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC]The”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/search1ba.aspx?y=2007&grt=1&institutionID=234076,231624,199120,170976,110635,110662,110680,240444,145637,139755&om=2&om2=2007&om1=2002&cat=Main&sortc=2007&sortd=DESC)</p>

<p>

The factual information I’ve provided answers the OP’s question, “How hard is it to graduate in 4 yrs at UW?” in a more comprehensive manner than the anecdotal evidence cited by only a small handful of posters in this thread. Paying for more than 4 years of college is a legitimate concern that has sparked many debates on CC. For example:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/781208-whats-difference.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/781208-whats-difference.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/741124-would-you-pay-fifth-year-undergrad.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/741124-would-you-pay-fifth-year-undergrad.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Some people are fine with paying for more than 4 years; others just don’t have the financial means to pay for that 5th or 6th year. Still other students and/or their families are plunged more deeply into debt when that degree isn’t earned in 4 years. Please don’t dismiss potential applicants’ financial concerns in the face of UW’s low 4-year graduation rate.</p>

<p>

I would like to help, but you and barrons keep insisting that providing factual information and bringing legitimate problems to the attention of others is ‘boring’ and ‘complaining.’ Furthermore, you two have a connection to UW, and are actually in a position to help others with these problems. Shooing the messenger away so you can pretend the problems don’t exist isn’t likely to help anyone with anything. </p>

<p>And what connections are you talking about? My daughter’s UW friends from high school? Well… yeah… they’re frustrated and angry that they’re stuck in limbo like AxeBack’s friends, and worried that they’re not going to be able to keep on schedule to graduate in 4 years, as are their parents. I’m sorry if that offends you.</p>

95

<p>^Insane in the membrane.</p>

96

<p>JiffsMom - I have a suggestion for your daughter’s friends, quit whining and being angry and learn to be proactive in their future. They need to learn to email, make phone calls, and make contingency plans, not simply complain. People on this board have demonstrated that these issues can be resolved. They need to learn how to handle situations like this. It’s an important life skill. Perhaps you could have them private message badgergirl and she could help them. She apparently learned how to navigate the system. Best of luck to them.</p>

97

<p>More than half of the students can’t graduate in 4 years and it’s the whiny angry students’ fault?!? If 20% or even 30% of the students couldn’t graduate on time, I would buy it - but a less than 50% 4-year graduation rate is the students’ fault? Only for those unwilling to see that there’s a legitimate systemic problem. How is UW policy locking some students out of freshman only pre-req classes they need while at the same time barring them from registering for more advanced classes (that they’re otherwise qualified to take) unless they’ve been admitted to the department’s school/program the students’ fault?</p>

<p>Tell me why you think potential applicants shouldn’t be made aware of UW’s less than 50% 4-year graduation rate and how that rate compares to the other top 10 publics, particularly when they specifically ASK how hard it is to graduate in 4 yrs at UW, as the OP did.</p>

<p>How about if those of you who keep insisting on shooting the messenger here on CC for answering a legitimate question truthfully actually MAKE A CONCERTED EFFORT to FIX UW’s low 4-year graduation rate problem? Hmmm?</p>

<p>It’s a travesty that this discussion is even necessary. Band together and put pressure on UW admin to fix UW’s course availability and course registration problems.</p>

98

<p>JiffsMom I think you’re missing the point. Even if the statistics are true, you can’t infer that the reason is the university’s fault or even if that it is a negative. There are too many variables that are unknown. Other than second semester when you are a sophomore or more by credits and need a freshman only course, what’s the problem? How many of those courses are required and can’t be handled on a case by case with the department or professor? The other issue of not knowing if you are admitted to a particular school or program while you are registering is something that has to be dealt with. Read badgergirl’s post. You deal with it. Unless there was direct admit to every program, or you registered for classes the week before the semester starts, this is going to happen. There is no systematic university wide problem other than maybe the freshman who aren’t freshman needing a freshman only class and that’s only for one semester. Even then, the benefits of registering early for your other classes out weighs the negatives. If a student wants to graduate in 4 years they can. Bottom line. If they choose not to for a variety of reasons, that’s their choice. Maybe it’s such a fun place to be that no one wants to leave. I guess people wouldn’t be shooting the messenger, if the messenger didn’t want to debate dictionary definitions.</p>

99

<p>JiffsMom, I have to say that although you’re sort of a pain in the neck I agree with you. The simple fact that this thread has now gone on 7 pages of wailing and gnashing of teeth certainly suggests to me that graduation rate is a matter of serious concern. And that is enough indication for me that it’s a problem. </p>

<p>BigTen, wis75 and barron will apparently defend UW to the end. There is no problem at UW. The students are whiners. Right. Why should they expect to pony up 20k+ a year and get what they want without frequent attempts to end-run the system (or lack thereof) on their own behalf? I’m sorry, you guys: the emperor has no clothes. The statistics speak for themselves. Is it possible to outdo the system, a la badgergirl? Yup. Should that really be necessary? No.</p>

<p>It’d be interesting to see if comparable threads exist on other Big Ten schools’ forums.</p>

<p>What’s really interesting to me is how few on this thread seem to recognize the power they have as consumers of higher education. UW is not mandatory. It’s not your only choice. Vote with your pocketbook. Go. Somewhere. Else. Somehwhere that (shhhh) actually guarantees 4 year graduation. Such schools exist.</p>

100

<p>BigTenMom, what you say would make sense if there wasn’t such a huge difference among the top 10 publics’ 4-year graduation rates. Expecting first year students to track down professors one by one to circumvent course registration lockouts and blockages doesn’t seem to be a viable plan as evidenced by the excessively low 4-year grad rate. Other large publics have their share of problems with bottleneck pre-req courses (supply doesn’t meet demand), but have not taken such a huge hit to their 4-year grad rates, perhaps because students who don’t get into a pre-req class they need can balance that setback by taking more advanced courses in another direction in which they’re qualified without being blocked by the specific college/department. </p>

<p>Do you have any factual data that suggests that ~27% or so of UW students (the difference between 4-year and 5-year grad rates) stay for a 5th year only because it’s such a fun place, and not because they couldn’t get into the courses they needed at the appropriate time in their 4 year educational progression? If so, that would be another factor for potential applicants to consider in their college search. They could factor in that 5th year of cost of attendance expenses right off the bat.</p>

<p>Regarding the definition and use of ‘matriculated’ - it’s not just a debate of dictionary definitions - colleges/universities actually define and use the term ‘matriculated’ differently, much in the same way they use the terms ‘dual enrollment’ and ‘concurrent enrollment’ differently - some even use both of those terms interchangeably.</p>