<p>I was just wondering how hard is it to get into these programs
Are there types that will accept students with 1400 sat score or does it need to be 1500+
Finally is it worth it and is there a "catch" (it seems so good and alot easier than taking the MCAT?</p>
<p>Its fairly hard to get into most programs. While I can say that a 1500+ score will give u a great advantage, there are a few programs where you can compete and suceed with a 1400 score. It is 100% worth it. I've heard of the med school application procedure from college students and let me tell you, its nothing short of a horror story. I would gladly give up an ivy league admission for a med program. There is no catch. All programs tell you up front about requirements (gpa, mcat, etc). Many programs even give you the option to opt out of the program if you feel like applying to other med schools or if you no longer want to pursue medicine.</p>
<p>I'm going to probably be the rare person who says that combined programs aren't ALL they're hyped up to be, unlike foodisgood. I also went into this process this year thinking that the programs were the best and surefire way of getting into medical school early on. But, what I realize was that it depends on what kind of doctor you want to be. Does it matter to you if you end up practicing a less competitive specialty or do you want to be a surgeon or get into research at least to a degree? The ones that are worth taking are places like Northwestern HPME and Rice/Baylor in my opinion. With those schools, you will be placed into very very good medical schools which will give you widest array of options and opportunities -- primary care, research, surgery, etc. But these programs are VERY competitive to get into, and they're not getting easier every year that goes by. The majority of people who get into them usually turn down Harvard, Yale, Duke, JHU, and other top schools which are hard enough to get into as it is. </p>
<p>The ones that people are able to get into with some modicum of regularity and decent stats...well, they're usually not the top medical schools and thus the opportunities for you to pursue your dream career would be limited. This is why I think one must carefully weigh one's future when deciding between a prestigious undergrad like HYPS and a lesser known program with an average medical school. Please remember that if you JUST want to be a doctor and you don't care what area you get into, then go to the combined program. They are awesome if you know you want to do medicine and don't care what area you get into. But if you're into top residencies or research, it might be wiser to go with a top undergrad WITH grade inflation (Harvard, Yale, Stanford) and try for medical school through that way. Some programs are restrictive in that they will revoke your acceptance if you apply out. In the cases where they do let you apply out, you'd have gone to a college you probably wouldn't have gone to without the BA/MD program for four years when you could have just gone to a better school you liked and enjoyed it more. All this and you're STILL taking the MCAT and going through the regular process.</p>
<p>Altogether, in my humble opinion, I think you should really weigh your future and think about what kind of doctor you want to be. It would be a shame to go, for example, to a primary care oriented program and decide you want to do research instead. Most high school students, and I'm starting to understand this now, even if they know medicine is their career of choice, don't have the wisdom or experience to know what kind of physician they want to be. This is why going to college will help you figure that out. </p>
<p>Take all of what I said with a grain of salt because I don't know what kind of future you want for yourself or which programs you will get into next year. If you get into HPME or Rice/Baylor, by all means go to those programs. They are very very solid and you would have many opportunities for any career in medicine you chose. I would take them over any Ivy you got into honestly if you know medicine is right for you. Plus you'd have gone to awesome colleges for undergrad if you decided to apply out eventually. I think my whole message in this long spiel is that you should think hard about your future, if you really want to commit to medicine (and possibly a certain type of med), and which program will help you most. I wish you the best luck next year and hope you are happy wherever you end up: undergrad or BA/MD program.</p>
<p>PM me if you have any more questions.</p>
<p>I would disagree with that.</p>
<p>On a scale of 1-5, most residency directors rank the prestige of the med school as a 2 in factoring their decisions. More important factors include: letters of recommendation, grades, STEP 1 board scores, interview, personal statement, and on and on and on</p>
<p>I would say that BA/MD programs are the least stressful and most direct way of entering medical school. What you do in medical school is more likely to determine what you will end up practicing. The name of the medical school is rarely if ever important.</p>
<p>The drawback to a BA/MD program is that it is set in stone. I would agree with the last poster's point on this one. People who are unsure of their commitment to medicine quickly find themselves very unhappy in a BA/MD program</p>
<p>Can you guys name some these BA/MD programs "that people are able to get into with some modicum of regularity and decent stats." I appreciate what you guys said and would like to research it on my own.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would disagree with that.</p>
<p>On a scale of 1-5, most residency directors rank the prestige of the med school as a 2 in factoring their decisions. More important factors include: letters of recommendation, grades, STEP 1 board scores, interview, personal statement, and on and on and on</p>
<p>I would say that BA/MD programs are the least stressful and most direct way of entering medical school. What you do in medical school is more likely to determine what you will end up practicing. The name of the medical school is rarely if ever important.</p>
<p>The drawback to a BA/MD program is that it is set in stone. I would agree with the last poster's point on this one. People who are unsure of their commitment to medicine quickly find themselves very unhappy in a BA/MD program
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, read what I said again. I said if you're not sure what TYPE of medicine you want to do, a BA/MD program of lesser renown may not be as wise a choice as a prestigious undergrad/prestigious BA/MD program. If you're not fully committed to medicine, you should not be applying to these programs. The underlying point to all these programs is that they want great students who KNOW they want to do medicine from an early standpoint but don't want them to be lost to "pre-med syndrome". Pre-med syndrome is the dog-eat-dog world of working hard against cutthroat competition where people will sabotage orgo labs or refuse to give you notes. In these programs, you wouldn't have to worry so much about that. </p>
<p>What I was saying was if you're more into research or surgery, going to a lesser known program it would be HARDER - not impossible of course - to get into your desired field. While I agree that what you do in med school determines your future success, going to a medical school that is highly regarded by residency directors i.e. Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, Michigan, etc. will give you a boost certainly. If you look at the match lists for HMS or Hopkins grads, you'll see that even the middle of the pack students get into great residencies in great specialties. However, going to a med school like Drexel or UMKC, you have to be the top 1 percent to get the best residencies. That's why I said it depends on what you're interested in. Also, it is difficult for students in HS to know what kind of specialty they want to go into much less knowing medicine is right for them so that is why it is better to go to a great program like HPME or Rice/Baylor so you have the OPTIONS or OPPORTUNITIES to get into whatever you want.</p>
<p>If it's something noncompetitive like Family Practice or Internal Medicine, you can get it at Northwestern. However, I doubt the likelihood of someone getting into Harvard Beth Israel for Neurosurgery from Drexel or UMKC. Not badmouthing these particular med schools, just saying they're not as well known or as highly regarded. </p>
<p>It boils down to this. Do you want more options in your future or are you set on just getting your MD? If you want more options go to the better program if you can get in. If you can't, it would be better to go to a top undergrad where you can do well and get into a better med school than settling for a lesser known BA/MD program. However if you want just an MD, go to any program and do well there. Hope that clears some stuff up.</p>
<p>i disagree with some points. ur residency degree is the most important degree you get as a doctor. if a ba/md program has matched people really well in the past, then i think its def worth it. sure, it may help in some cases to go to a top 10 med school, but ultimately if u do well on ur boards ur gonna get into one of ur top choices, regardless of ur school. if the med school with a ba/md program has a history of good matches, y would u turn it down if ur 100% sure of being a doctor? the only reason id see is ur getting an md/phd, since this is ur last and most meaningful degree. but as far as speciality, i cant really say the same about a med school.</p>
<p>also, y would u go to 4 years of undergrad and work extra hard if u can chill and relax while still taking ur classes. ba/md programs are def a lot more relaxed then the vast vast majority of universities (even HYPS) just becuase, well, u dont have to worry or work that hard. thats just my opinion though.</p>
<p>WOW this is getting interesting. Can some answer my question:</p>
<p>"Can you guys name some these BA/MD programs "that people are able to get into with some modicum of regularity and decent stats." I appreciate what you guys said and would like to research it on my own."</p>
<p>stanford_dude, while i agree with some of your points, I must debate about your view on residency matches. It is true that more people in higher ranked med schools get into better residencies but your reasoning is wrong. These people are more motivated to pursue higher end residencies and therefore, they push themselves towards it. Its not really related to which med school they went to. If person A goes to a no name and gets a higher board score than person B who goes to a high ranked med school, I'm pretty sure that person A will get a better residency match. In the end, it is all about how motivated the student is, not the school.</p>
<p>I would agree with food.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is that all med schools don't have the same departments. Having a home department makes it a lot easier for someone to get to know the program director, the attendings, and the researchers. Those types of connections and opportunities may be more important than the name of a med school. That's just another thing to consider when picking a school.</p>
<p>Yeah, I am specifically talking about the schools which push primary care like UMKC, Drexel, etc. The main problem is, even if you are motivated to get a top residency from Drexel or UMKC, the problem is the lack of resources available to you. For those top residencies, and you can check up on this, you need to have tons of research in that field i.e. ophthalmology, orthopedics, neurosurgery, etc. How are you going to get that kind of research at Drexel or UMKC where their research is more basic sciences not clinical (the kind that will impress Program Directors)? There are certain things in primary care bent schoosl which will make it difficult for you already to get into the top residencies. </p>
<p>I am very much for those schools which are research oriented which have BA/MD programs. But they are usually even more difficult to get into than the ones associated with a primary care school. That's why I said that if one was to get into a primary care oriented BA/MD program like UMKC, NEOUCOM, or Drexel, it is better to go to a highly reputed Ivy or top school if you can get in. Even if you're not sure what specialty you want to go into, isn't it better to have more options? Just in case you decide later on you want to do that hard neurosurgery or ophthalmology residency? I feel you would be restricted unnecessarily at primary care schools unless you are DEFINITELY sure you just want an MD and want to get to practice as soon as possible. </p>
<p>And, impactangel, yes that is another good point to look at. You guys should really look into the type of med school and the opportunities available instead of just seeing "It's guaranteed admissions, I'm going." There is much more to the med school game than you might think, and I hope these posts help you guys out.</p>
<p>EDIT: And yes if you read my posts above, I never ever discount a person's motivation to get into a great residency from anywhere. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is difficult from a lesser known/primary care school. To get into the top residencies, you need to have 1) clinical research in your field of interest (very important) 2) good reputation for med school (not as important) 3) good preparation for USMLES (certain schools do a great job whereas others...not so great.)</p>
<p>I hope all of you research these schools you possibly might be entering before you make a quick decision. Good luck wherever you decide to go.</p>
<p>ahhh...i see what you mean now</p>
<p>I didn't know those med programs/schools are heavily focused on primary case</p>
<p>in that case, it might be a slight disadvantage</p>
<p>but just to use an example, the psu/jeff program isn't the greatest around...in fact, i dont believe that med school is even in the top 50</p>
<p>but it has a fairly broad range in terms of its hospital specialties. It has opthalmology, neurology, orthopedic, etc.. etc... departments and a good student from Jeff should be just as well prepared as a good student from Harvard (seeing as both would have the opportunites to impress program directors/attendings/get research from all these different specialties)</p>
<p>Absolutely. You might have to work a little harder at Jefferson than Harvard but that's more due to the quality of the med students at Harvard. Since they're the best of the best, overall, they are usually more motivated and stronger academically anyways than the average student from Jefferson. So yeah definitely work very hard in med school, but make sure to look at the wide variety of medical schools and their own focuses/missions. Make sure it fits with your goals, or at the very least offers you as many opportunities to branch out into anything rather than restricting you. </p>
<p>Also, don't buy TOO much into the US News rankings. They're useful to learn how much money for research top med schools have or how their students feel about the school, but they don't tell you that they are a good fit and will be the best place for you -- the place you will be happiest. And in the end thats what is important. Where are you going to be happy? Wherever that is that's where you'll do the best. But it always helps to go to schools with more opportunities i.e. top 20 research schools.</p>
<p>Amm thanks guys... SOO</p>
<p>"Can you guys name some these BA/MD programs "that people are able to get into with some modicum of regularity and decent stats." I appreciate what you guys said and would like to research it on my own."??????????</p>
<p>The only people who can answer that question are the admission committees of each school.</p>
<p>Instead of worrying about which schools are easier to get into, I would worry about doing better in school and then letting the chips fall where they may.</p>
<p>Ok I DID not mean it like that
I simply want to see the spectrum in which these programs lie in</p>
<p>I think Drexel's programs are supposedly relatively easy to get into. Usually any program with an MCAT requirement will be less competitive because everyone wants to shoot for the programs w/out MCAT. So look for that I guess if your only goal is to become a doctor. If you want more out of medicine or want to avoid the MCAT, try the solid programs like Case PPSP, Northwestern HPME, Rice/Baylor, and George Washington BA/MD. There are others, but they usually have certain requirements i.e. XX state resident, minority status, etc.</p>
<p>Also don't put your hopes too highly on these programs. Apply to safety schools and some regular GOOD schools like the Ivies. See how you do and go from there. Good luck.</p>
<p>Only on a BA/MD thread are Ivies called "regular good schools" lol</p>
<p>haha its true though</p>