How Important is an Elite College Degree?

<p>Audiophile asked, "laxdad,
So your response to the topic's question is that an elite degree dated before 1965 or so was important, but today ???"</p>

<p>To some extent, yes, though that would be an oversimplification. If "important" refers to the quality of the undergraduate educational and intellectual experience, I'd say that today's students at many elite colleges are short changed ... admittedly sometimes because they take the easy course Sakky so eloquently describes. That is in comparison both with students at the same schools fifty years ago when general education curriculum requirements were far more rigorous and with students at their same schools who avail themselves of more rigorous programs today. I'd argue that the "Gentleman's C" student of fifty years ago received a far better undergraduate education than today's B to B+ student who may never have taken a course outside his/her area of comfort.</p>

<p>If "important" means leverage in grad school admissions or getting that first job, I'd say elite schools can open some doors, but not over legitimate high performers from less prestigious schools or people with lower GPAs from programs or schools known to have no grade inflation, such as the service academies. In the poll, I voted for "Unimportant after first job." </p>

<p>One demurral from that: some colleges have very effective alumni support organizations that provide leads for job seekers at all stages in their careers. The better placed the alumni, the more effective the network. For example, service academy alumni who leave the military are disproportionately represented in the top echelons of American corporations and professions. Each academy alumni group has its own computerized job matching network, and the networks are linked. Moreover, a major part of the ethic at the service academies is to look after their own ... as exemplified by the "cooperate and graduate" mantra that often will have a cadet spend time helping a classmate with a subject, even to the detriment of his/her own grade. Individually and combined, these networks appear more comprehensive and effective than that of the top tier college I attended so many years ago. Thus, it is probably true that a degree from a service academy offers more leverage over the years even than degrees from many other elite undergraduate institutions. </p>

<p>But perhaps the grad school/job search success of academy grads has little to do with the alumni ... service academy grads may simply be more attractive admits/hirees. The academies (especially West Point) are just about the only places that still to admit under a "whole candidate" system (favoring the proverbial "well rounded person") and to require every student to complete a comprehensive core curriculum that includes all the major disciplines. With that broad background, and after five or more years of active duty during which they dealt with responsibilities far beyond what most recent college grads face, they can't properly be compared with most of their age peers.</p>

<p>I agree with laxdad. The only other aspect of the issue I would point out is that lax standards (no pun intended) are obviously not just found only in the elite schools, but rather at all schools. If the elite schools have lax standards with regards to many of their liberal arts programs, then the no-name schools REALLY have lax standards in many of their programs. Hence, from a competitive standpoint, a lazy liberal arts student at an elite school is still better off than a lazy liberal arts student at a no-name school.</p>

<p>Again to reiterate, I am not saying that all liberal arts students are lazy. Some are extremely hard working. But the fact is, many are not. And their schools, whether they are elite or not, allows them to get away with being lazy. The sad truth is that there really a lot of college students who don't want to study or work hard. They just want a degree handed to them. And many liberal arts programs will, sadly, hand it to them.</p>

<p>sakky & laxdad,</p>

<p>There is another issue here regarding "hard working": Is the student focused on getting a great education or just on getting great grades? I do believe there is a difference and I think many pre-professionals are just focused on grades.</p>

<p>Audiophile, I agree, and that's a problem with the preprofessional adcoms in that they have shown that they don't really care how good your education is, they just want to see top grades. They may SAY that they want you to take challenging coursework that expands your horizons, and I think they may actually believe it themselves, but when push comes to shove and they're sifting through thousands of applications, they inevitably start using mechanical cutoff screenpoints like GPA's, without regard to the quality of the GPA's. And a lot of candidates have figured this out and gamed the system by simply cherrypicking the easiest possible classes in order to get A's without doing any work. For example, I know people who were perfectly fluent in a foreign language, but decided to take the entire intro sequence of that language, just to rack up a bunch of easy A's. It worked - they got into the professional schools of their choice. It shouldn't have worked, but it did work.</p>

<p>I really don't think it's important at all.. a degree is a degree in my mind. I didn't go to an elite college and I got a job with a fortune 100 company... just as i'm sure there are people who went to elite colleges who didn't get jobs working for a fortune 100 company.</p>

<p>My husband and I graduated from LSU, and went on to Smith and Yale graduate school in business and social work. I talked my way into Smith and Columbia. As the cliche goes, bloom where you are planted.</p>

<p>I graduated in the lower third of high school. Nothing to be proud of. I graduated from a third tier state school. I was frightened I might not make it thru LSU. Don't laugh. So I ramped up in college, talked my way into the Honors English program at LSU and learned to write. But that hardly unlocked two elite northeastern schools for me. It just got me up to speed. </p>

<p>Boldness will carry you far, sometimes farther than you even thought. I was the only white person in a university of 30,000 who stepped forward to demand the sheriff's office investigate the killing of three African American students in a cross town university, Southern University. This is 1974. I organize several marches that mushroomed into campus notoriety in Baton Rouge. I was promptly defrocked by the LSU administration from A Who's Who in American Universities. Please forgive if this seems self congratulatory. That's not my point. Nothing of this was by design, call it fate, </p>

<p>I got my first job by bringing the newspaper articles of my political activities to the interview and went on to work for the Office for Civil Rights in La. In no way was I thinking about graduate school at that time. But I am sure my activities got me into graduate school, Even if this does not speak directly to undergraduate admissions in 2006, there is a lesson of encouragement, I think.</p>

<p>I send encouragement to those who may feel constricted , intimidated, disheartened by college admission processes the first go around.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You may end up getting to an "elite school", just not on the first pass- wait, persevere, transfer. Graduate school is a great time to be at an Ivy. Call and find out why you got rejected. Don't be pushy. But certainly don't be afraid. </p></li>
<li><p>Bloom where you are planted. Forget the brand, I know a Rhodes scholar rejected from Yale Law because he hung around Oxford too long and a homeless young man who was admitted to Yale undergrad. The best schools will takes chances, if you convince yourself and the school you deserve it. ( I know Yale best since I have lived in New Haven 30 yrs )</p></li>
<li><p>Think and act outside the box. If you do it without guile, people take notice. There are zig zag paths to the very best education.</p></li>
<li><p>Life is kinder to the late bloomer than school.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Does it make a difference to come from an "elite" university? It is crucial to be well educated. I congratulate all those who aim high. What an undertaking now to get into these schools. In the short run,a great school gives you an extra lap. Networking may be easier at the start,but a personable, assertive approach by all comers levels the field quickly. Over time, character and boldness holds the day.</p>

<p>debbynewhaven said, "Over time, character and boldness holds the day."</p>

<p>That is how I feel based on my experiences.</p>

<p>I'm off to Oxford on Thursday...Biology awaits. Everyone wish me luck. </p>

<p>laxdad...You're a good man and I've enjoyed your insights. You are from the "old school" and remind me of my dad (West Point '79).</p>