<p>first day of school today and my my son's guidance counselor scolded S for applying online to several colleges without his involvement- OK. he prefers to see the apps before they are sent...</p>
<p>on one hand i admire his dedication, but on the other applying early was in my son's best interests. we tried to get a hold of the gc this summer but he was oos.........so my question for fellow parents -- what is your reaction to this??? how involved is your s/d gc? </p>
<p>my son said the gc (Sounded like in a firm tone) to show up in his office tomorrow to discuss..</p>
<p>None of the GC's darn business if your son applied online without his "permission". Geez. I'd wonder what the GC's motivation is...does he have to "approve" the application before it goes out the door? What's he checking for? Mistakes? Lies? Is he going to tell your son that he doesn't like something about the way he filled it out? Is he going to tell your son that he shouldn't apply at all? </p>
<p>I don't have much trust, I'll admit it. My kid's guidance office held onto his paperwork for a rolling admission school and sent in others- because they were "weaker" applicants and they wanted to make sure they got in first. BS! I don't put up with that kind of manipulation. </p>
<p>If it was me, I'd be in the GC's office with my son tomorrow. While the GC might think he needs to question your son, I'd have some questions myself, like "why exactly do you need to see the application?"</p>
<p>Doubleplay,
Our school's guidance office isn't even competent enough to do something as devious as what happened to your son at his rolling admission school. Our guidance office buried a rolling admissions application of one of my son's friends, a very strong student. By the time he figured out it was never sent, it was too late for merit money given on a rolling basis, which he would have very likely have been awarded.</p>
<p>DP thanks for feedback..I was somewhat taken a back when my son told me what happened. He even said it's ok mom i will go in tomorrow and "stick up for myself" raised my eyebrows that this is how the gc has made him feel. My gut was telling me the gc's motivation stems from control issues but the scenario seems bizarre........?</p>
<p>Doesn't the GC also have to write a few sentences about the kid on the school's form that goes along with the official h.s. transcript? Perhaps he wanted to see what the kid was writing to segue the two pieces. Am just fishing for
a positive reason the GC might have wanted to see the app before it was mailed. Of course, what would he do if the kid described himself, or his school, quite differently than the GC would? For example, if the kid said he went to a "highly competitive" h.s., the GC might correct that and say "moderately competitive" so the kid's app all hangs together.
The GC's also have to watch out against kids (not yours) who might claim to be in all kinds of school EC's, when it just isn't true.</p>
<p>I'm going to relate another anecdote about GC involvement/lack of involvement. Our high school also had a policy of getting involved in the application process.</p>
<p>My son applied to a top 10 engineering university. On the application it specifically requested that students NOT send transcripts, etc. from their high school. All they wanted was the student to self-report grades, fill out the application, and have scores sent (they would request transcripts after admission). So that's what son did. He didn't tell anyone at his school he was applying (after the hold-up fiasco- see above post- with the rolling admission paperwork, he was glad to have an application that didn't require the school's special stamp of approval).</p>
<p>He ended up being selected as a presidential scholar semi-finalist; had the personal interviews; and made the final cut (only 100 selected). He went up to the U to do the scholars weekend and receive his scholarship award. Apparently, the school at some point found out. I received a phone call asking me why they weren't notified, so they could have submitted the transcripts, their "recommendation and student evaluation", their profile, etc. I told them that my son was just following instructions. They were shocked.</p>
<p>There were several other students who applied to same U that year, some with higher grades AND scores; all of them went through the high school guidance office like good little doobies, had all the paperwork sent; NONE were selected even for the first round. Hmmm. Maybe they're looking for people who can read and follow directions?</p>
<p>The moral of the story is, sometimes the way the "guidance office does it" isn't necessarily the best way.</p>
<p>i appreciate all the feedback food for thought..let me elaborate we were aware the GC likes to look over app prior to sending it out. Two of the apps he sent in UF and FSU were difficult to try to print out as GC requested. he was given our S resume, a sample essays etc..at end of last year . he meets with akll students and parents who complete a five page form. he uses the info on the form to write his rec letter. many seek this gc as he has the rep in a very large public hs for placing kids in ivys/ (my son is not an ivy)</p>
<p>so this gc is highly regarded however i believe this is his last yr prior to retirement. I dont think he is use to online apps . yes he has a tried and true method. as said before i admire his dedication.but perhaps this is a case of the times they are a changin.</p>
<p>i think what bothers me most is that he made my son feel uncomfortable. the "it's ok mom i cango in and stick up for myself." comment. I have not let on to my S that I am disconcerned but to get that reaction from S he must have treated him combativly? BTW my S is a very nice - sensitive but "go with the flow" boy well liked by peers and teachers.</p>
<p>I certainly would not blame the GC for wanting to see all apps before they go in. A badly done one reflects poorly on the school. MOST apps I have ever seen want the official transcripts sent directly from the school as it includes the school profile and other data. I sense a big fat chip on somebody's shoulder and it's not the GC. He's probably just following policy. I don't know any school where it is THAT important to have apps in before HS even starts.</p>
<p>Here is the info from a very typical university.</p>
<p>"Official Transcripts. We require transcripts for all high school and college-level work. Official transcripts should be sent directly by the school"</p>
<p>I'm wondering if this GC thinks that part of the reason many of "his" students get into competitive schools is because the admissions reps respect the applications coming out of his office. Or maybe there was an issue years ago with some student who was less than truthful about an EC or an ED application and that hurt other applicants from your HS for awhile.</p>
<p>Even though your S has done nothing wrong, this is one case in which I would still encourage your S apologize to the GC (you still want him to write a nice letter for your S), and say that he tried to reach him over the summer, however he had heard that it is best to get these applications in early.</p>
<p>Regarding transcripts, they are a separate issue from the application itself. That is especially so today when the majority of applications are being done online. The application itself is supposed to be the work of the student's.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>they could have submitted the transcripts, their "recommendation and student evaluation", their profile, etc.<<</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Admittedly, this is the usual way colleges do it...they want to see an official transcript, the School Report (including recommendation of student) and a printed profile of the school, all to be sent by the GC.</p>
<p>Some schools (like the UCs for example) don't require any of that. If you are accepted and coming to the school in the fall, they want to see an official transcript at the end of your senior year, but that is about it for GC involvement.</p>
<p>As for GCs seeing the applications before they go out--it doesn't happen at our school unless the student wants to come in and discuss an issue with the GC. Frankly, there are times that I wish a student would have brought an application for the GC's perusal--some kids idea of a perfectly acceptable application is way out there.</p>
<p>I had to suggest to one kid that perhaps printing the application in dark ink might be a better way to go than scribbling in pencil.</p>
<p>Definitely get help. I hope my post did not turn people off from getting help. I had a bad experience. Part of me hopes that someone from the GC office at my kids' old school will see the story in print. I'm sure they'd be angry for me telling on them, but then they'd have to see what they've done for what it is. 99.99% of the world doesn't operate that way. Part of my catharsis after the past few years at that school is CC...I get to see that the rest of the world isn't twisted and skewed. This forum has also exposed a lot of things that I thought were "normal", that really are not. </p>
<p>But definitely get help from your GC. They are there to help.</p>
<p>However, the fact that a university puts the online application out in, say, June, means it's perfectly acceptable to fill it out and turn it in by September 5. Who is to say that's too early? If the college thought it was too early, they wouldn't make it available until later.</p>
<p>I have a feeling that what the GC wanted to see was your son's essay before it was sent, to see if it was "polished" and as well written as it could be. Many times the first application essays are not nearly as good as those completed later on. Perhaps that is what he was concerned about? Did your son show his essay to anyone before he sent them in? Other than that, I don't think your son should apologize for applying early, especially if that was required for scholarship consideration, or he was applying to colleges whose acceptances are rolling.</p>
<p>"Official Transcripts. We require transcripts for all high school and college-level work. Official transcripts should be sent directly by the school"
Barrons, Transcripts are not submitted electonically at the same time or with the students application, they are always mailed seperately by the school, usually as part of the packet submitted by the counselor. One happens completely independant of the other, especially these days when colleges encourage, and in some cases require the students application to be submitted online.
"I sense a big fat chip on somebody's shoulder and it's not the GC."
I think this was an unnecessary and uncalled for comment.</p>
<p>I am a little jealous to hear about all these "involved" GCs. When D applied to schools last year, EVERYTHING was done at home. Her GC didn't know her well enough to write recommendations, even though she was the only NMF in the senior class!! D had to go over to her dad's office at night and use the staff's electric typewriter to complete her own National Merit forms and any college application forms that couldn't be done on-line!! The gifted teacher wrote the recommendations and signed them "gifted counselor". Transcripts were sent by the registrar, so the GC was completely out of the loop. The joys of attending a large, mediocre, public high school.</p>
<p>I agree about the joys of attending a large public high school (mediocre seems almost redundant). D had a good GC, a smart woman with relevant experience, BUT like all the GCs at this school, student to counselor ratio was 500:1. D did fine on her own with minimal advice, but at the end of the year the GC quit and went into private consulting. Sigh.</p>
<p>Our daughter's school had a form the student had to fill out for each application. It listed the college and whether they had applied on line. If the application had forms they also got turned in, along with the essay.The school then put together a packet with essays,transcripts, SAT grades, recommendations, school profile and anything else the application called for. They mailed it with 2 days of the student turning the checklist in. I thought this was great.
However, my child did apply to 1 school during the summer that did not want recommendations or official transcripts. GC was not at all upset when she learned about it in Sept.</p>
<p>"first day of school today and my my son's guidance counselor scolded S for applying online to several colleges without his involvement"</p>
<p>First day of school. Hmmm. I guess the various colleges contacted the HS about the applications, or perhaps the student reported the applications himself? I'm not excusing the rude treatment by the GC, but there's clearly a communication issue here. Since the GC is obviously involved in the process (and since that process is only a few months) I'd suggest you go with your son and "make nice" with the GC. What do you have to lose?</p>
<p>We involved our public HS GC probably early Feb of junior year. I had helped my son generate a list of schools to visit that fit his academic and social personalities and asked for a meeting with GC. He was very helpful and encouraging--helped us find current students from son's hs who would meet with him on visits.</p>
<p>Our GC also put a lot of work into getting to know each student so he could write an informed rec. He had about 100 rec's to write and hundreds of younger students to help with course registration, personal problems, family issues, etc. Always upbeat...ok, we were lucky, but this is a tough job.</p>