<p>Just be aware that you will be paying top dollar for UMich and W&M if she gets in. COA very high for OOS, and not much (if anything) in aid.</p>
<p>(My daughter was waitlisted at W&M with 2220 SATs and NMF.)</p>
<p>I found that the schools that wanted my son the most were the ones that gave the most money. Geographics, major field of study, EC, male all factored into the equation. Every single school that gave him a scholarship had a reason for it, and there was definitely a correlation with selectivity though not exact. Where he was truly higher up in the SATs than the other students, he tended to get more money.</p>
<p>Lurkness, my son's close friend did get into W&M with similar stats but got the least amount of aid from them of ALL of his colleges. It was his first choice but he had to let it go.</p>
<p>M’s Mom, I see no reason why your daughter shouldn’t apply to Williams and Dartmouth if these schools appeal to her. </p>
<p>I’m not so familiar with Dartmouth admissions but I can tell you that a student who offers the trifecta of academics/sports/art would be very attractive to Williams. Williams is very friendly place. I wouldn’t worry about undue stress (unless she’s determined to get all A’s).</p>
<p>Among the other schools on your daughter’s list my son, who graduated from Williams with a degree in art studio and art history, was interested Kenyon and Conn College. I would also recommend Hamilton, Skidmore and Wesleyan in the same general personality-type and offering good art departments.</p>
<p>Could you please qualify for the type of aid you are looking for? If your family qualifies for need based aid, then any of the colleges on her list would be possibilities and it’s true that sometimes the more selective are the most generous. If, on the other hand, you are looking for merit aid, then she may have to do some editing as many of the selectives do not offer merit.</p>
<p>In any event she should plan to submit an art portfolio along with her application even if she doesn’t intend to major in art. See the individual websites for instructions.</p>
<p>I concur that visits to LACs especially are recommended, both to demonstrate interest to the college and to crystalize her own interest. LACs have individual personalities and sometimes it's hard to get a feeling from afar.</p>
<p>I would really recommend looking up the financials on the usnwr site and seeing what % of aid the school usually meets. Most of the schools gave us financial aid that was similar to their 'percentage of need met.' The one exception was a liberal arts school that I knew would really want one of my kids. They are not need blind and meet, on average, 86% of need. They met 100% of our need, packaged her with no loans and estimated our need low.</p>
<p>MM, I just ventured into a little of that past post. Have you checked out the merit opportunities at those schools? I would do the fa calculators but you could easily be expected to come up with over $20K and it looks like you have maybe 1 year's contribution saved up so I think you may want to focus on schools with substantial merit $. One school you may want to consider is Tulane-- good merit, lots of northern kids.</p>
<p>Ummm. I don't think the OOS publics are good for financial aid.</p>
<p>Re #20, no jmmom, we have a very low EFC and definitely qualify for need-based aid.</p>
<p>The need-based component of that particular package was really tiny in comparison to the other schools. Even when combined with a nice 4 year merit award (10K per year) it left us with something like 5 times our EFC to pay, if memory serves.</p>
<p>Thank you, Parents! Your experiences and opinions are so helpful.</p>
<p>Dad II, I am not offended, not at all. It is exactly what we needed. </p>
<p>This is a list in progress, and it is my daughter's list so it more reflects her desires than the practicalities of aid at this point. At the bottom of the first post you can see which two schools are most likely to move off the list (cptofthehouse, lurkness, and consolation would probably agree here) and which two might move on, but she knows she can try for any just that if her own state school ends up being the best option, then state it will be. </p>
<p>The "aim high or low" for aid is where my parental qualms are I think. As Bethievt said, there's still fit to consider. I would put my daugher at a place that is comfortable but where she'll get challenge (kind of in the middle, but then the aid is questionable). I wouldn't put her where she'd be at the very top of the applicant pool since she does well with challenge and when she is excited by new things. She loves discussion, she reads a lot, she's social. I don't know how comfortable aiming really high would put her (makes me nervous). Some of the out of state flagship publics seem great for her-- except for the admission and aid!! No small items! So then where are we? Back to high or low? As you've suggested, more visits if we can somehow cram them in?</p>
<p>Alumother, for culture, school culture: sporty/spirited but with academic focus too? Strongest areas of school so far are lab sciences and history, language, economics. No really weak areas, but those subjects stand out. And Art.
Thank you Momrath about the portfolio.</p>
<p>Well, keep the suggestions coming and we'll keep working on this list! This is mentally very tiring and frustrating.</p>
<p>2college, thank you. How did you know that the college that usually meets 86percent of need would really want your son or daughter? Congrats on that perfect aid! Wow, how did you find that?</p>
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Ummm. I don't think the OOS publics are good for financial aid.
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<p>cptofthehouse, you are certainly correct in that observation, but there are exceptions. For instance, my daughter received a full-tuition scholarship to the University of Pittsburgh. We were delightfuly surprised by that because it isn't spelled out on the college's website. The letter arrived in the mail one day and our jaws dropped! In a good way, of course.</p>
<p>She just finished up her freshman year there, and she loved it. The work was challenging enough, and the presence of the honors college means that there is a cadre of smart, high-performing kids. She also likes the small-city setting of the campus, which has an urban feeling but also has lawns and green spaces. I think the SAT threshold for the full-tuition OOS scholarship at Pitt is around 1450 (M/CR). I think the college is definitely worth checking out, especially if your son or daughter is likely to get a scholarship. Strong fields of study at Pitt include philosophy (one of the top in the nation), Asian languages (what my daughter is taking), engineering (the school just received a $40 million donation), pre-med, physical therapy, nursing, psychology. School spirit is high, especially for basketball fans. The kids are very nice and down to earth.</p>
<p>And that is my Pitt pitch of the day! :)</p>
<p>OP, I meant to add at some point that I think Middlebury would fit your D's requirements well (sporty, somewhat laid back atmosphere, serious academic focus, language emphasis). If she's considering Williams and Dartmouth, it's a natural place to consider, probably a little bit easier to get into, and reputedly has good FA. (You'd have to compare the stats. Have you looked at the Common Data Sets on these college's web sites?) Another strong possibility is Bates.</p>
<p>A few that have occurred to me that don't seem to have been up for consideration are Bard (don't know about the sporty, but the arts are nailed), Amherst, and Smith. (The latter two aren't exactly laid back, but I don't think they are pressure cookers, either. I think that Wellesley would definitely be too intense for her.)</p>
<p>I don't know much about the University of Richmond, but wouldn't that be a safety for her?</p>
<p>OP. Let's me assume you of one thing: At the end, everthing will work out just fine.</p>
<p>If you like, you could do a search of my posts just in this forum. You will see all my up and downs in the last year. I guess I am a good case study because I revealed a lot more than 99.9% of the posters here. It may teach you one thing or two. It may take you a while so because some of them has over 100 replies. </p>
<p>My point, you will experince joy and you will experience pain. At the end, it will for sure work out.</p>
<p>I think there are OOS publics that are good possibilites for aid but not the ones mentioned by the OP. Pitt is indeed a wonderful school, and I think their Chancellor Awards and other packages are a must look for those who need or want money for college. Univ of Arizona is another public that is generous to OOS kids. UBuffalo is working to get more OOS kids and I have seen some good packages from there. Georgia Tech has a phenomonal merit scholarship. But these are exceptions. Unless you are a top notch highly desirable student, it is difficult to get aid from OOS colleges. There are some programs that specifically target OOS kids, but they usually have pretty tough standards. Schools like Mich, Wis, and W&M are not easy admissions either, so there is a lot of competition for that money, as they have a strong OOS following.</p>
<p>D1 had an $80,000 merit scholarship offer from UMich ($20,000 a year x 4 years). She turned it down and subsequently went to an Ivy where her "need-based" aid is worth > $100,000. UMich minus $20K per year is still a pretty expensive school OOS.</p>
<p>We are in state for Ohio State where DD got a full tuition and a $2500/y state scholarship. From Stanford, her all grant "need based" aid is >$160,000 for 4 years. OSU - full tuition+ is still a pretty expensive in state school, relatively speaking.</p>
<p>Both of your Ds were clearly "top drawer" candidates to get into the schools they did, and to get those scholarships.</p>
<p>I hope my post #36 did not come across as me bragging. If you read my earliest posts, I am trying to make a point. Going high could be really rewarding financially.</p>
<p>No, I did not think it was bragging. I think both posts were relevant in that they show what sort of kids get what kind of money from the selective state unis and how it compares to the most selective schools.</p>
<p>MM asked: "How did you know that the college that usually meets 86percent of need would really want your son or daughter?" </p>
<p>It was Skidmore and my d would have happily attended all 4 years there. She was a strong applicant-- in the top 25% of their applicants as far as SATs, with a rigorous course load, a lot of community service, some international experience, a desired major in science (which I figured they liked because they have a science scholarship), a theater background (they have a strong arts program) and she's black. Those are all things I found out they wanted. The catch was I had no idea if they would want her enough to make it happen financially and they did. The only reason she's not attending is because there were several schools we loved where she was accepted and, alas, she could only choose one. But I have nothing but nice things to say about Skidmore.</p>
<p>The one thing I want to say about $ is that people are mixing merit and need base on this thread. If you can meet what may be your family contribution based on Institutional Method (not just EFC) and your dd will be able to contribute another $4,500ish or so (between a student loan and summer employment), then you just need need-based aid. If you need more money than that, you need to look for a school that gives a lot of merit aid. </p>
<p>Some of the schools listed (Amherst, I believe Midd, Williams, Darmouth) only give need-based financial aid. Some of the other schools (Tulane, U of Richmond) give merit aid. It is critical you figure out into which camp you fall. </p>
<p>Most publics will not meet 100% of EFC even for instate. If your daughter earns National Merit, I believe there are some guaranteed scholarships, many of which I believe are at state schools. Many of the state schools that have substantial merit post it right on their webpages and it's often based on SAT.</p>