So many topics here are about starting at elite and very competitive schools. How many of you are considering spending your first two years at a community college? Why or why not?
On College Confidential the answer is probably close to zero. CCs are good options for some students, but they are equally poor choice for others.
I have a Dd who opted for a terminal degree from a CC. She has a great career doing exactly what she wants. I also have an adult Aspie who dropped out of college after a yr and is finally going back for a degree. He started back at our local CC and it is a good fit for him. Low stress. Lots of support.
I also have kids for whom attending a CC would have been a terrible decision. Kids who are academically advanced will have very limited course options on a CC campus. If a student has completed 100 and 200 course sequences, they should not consider a CC. Students who qualify for large freshman admission scholarships will lose out on those opportunities if they start at a CC. Students who want to focus on research and plan on getting involved freshman yr should also think carefully about a CC. Entering as a Jr means that many other students have actively been researching with professors for 2 yrs already and have developed relationships in the dept. The opportunity to grow in a research project and develop a strong relationship with their research mentor, present their research, and receive strong LOR grad school after 3 yrs is simply better than if they arrive on campus as a Jr, have to try to find a prof that might be willing to take them on, just start on a research project, and ask for a LOR within a yr.
But, starting at a CC can save money for a lot of students while allowing them to start in a smaller environment. Transferring to a school with reciprocity established can work out well for some students.
I’m a little disappointed to see so much negativity toward CCs so soon after finally deciding to join, since that would seem to be the direction in which we are heading. I think they are undervalued - some see the education as inferior but students who come out of CCs and transfer are generally more focused and dedicated to their studies.
We are heading in the direction of a CC because of my son’s intense desire to NOT live in a dorm. That’s not him, not his personality, and most schools require first-years to live on campus.
I am not anti-CCs. As I stated above, it is the path chosen by 2 of my children bc it suited their needs. But, I do question the validity of the above statement and wonder if you have data that verifies its claim.
Fwiw, my Jr only wants to live at home and commute to our local U which is at best a mediocre U. Her choice. So I do understand your ds’s perspective.
I think this is a self-selected grouphere on CC…if you are going to a Community College:
- You don’t need to choose which one to go to, you go to your local CC
- You are pretty much guaranteed acceptance
So there is not a lot of discussion needed.
We do often steer people to CC that have circumstances that warrant it.
There are 4 year colleges that are commuter schools that cater to your situation.
That being said, CC can be a great cost saving measure. Plus, often times the first two years are intro courses anyways typically. It can also be a chance for a student to hit the reset button and gain admission to a school which may not have accepted him/her in the first place.
There are two sub-forums here that focus on CCs. One is inside this forum. Check at the very top of the forum to find the link. The other is inside the Transfer forum and focuses on transfering within the CA CC/CSU/UC system.
I am a big fan of CCs. They serve more than half the undergraduate college students in the US. Granted, many of those are non-traditonal-age students and career-changers, but traditional-age students who have financial limits and lack the GPA and test scores that would get them big merit money at 4-year institutions will often find that starting at a CC makes sense.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek , I do have data to back that up, but it’s institution-centric and may not be representative of other colleges.
CC isn’t always cost saving, though, especially for a high stats kid. Colleges that meet need typically give better need based aid to frosh applicants than to transfers. Also, quite a bit of merit aid is only offered to students whe enter as frosh. Giving the CC advice to everyone (as the OP has done forvthe past few weeks) is doing some of these students a disservice.
CC is recommended often out here for students who need to build their GPAs for a four year, students who have very limited financial resources and don’t have high stats, students with health issues that want or need to live at home, students whose families can’t pay their EFC at 4 year schools, or students dropping out of a 4 year. But as noted above, CC is more straightforward in terms of admission, so there is much less discussion out here.
I think cc is a great choice if that’s what the kid wants. My niece went, got all of her required classes out of the way , lived home and saved money and graduated from a state school. She did it because she wanted to go to a specific school and got wsitlisted.
My friends son just wasn’t ready to commit to a college. He did the same at a cc that has a close relationship with Lehigh University, where he transferred to last year.
Seems like most of us agree that CC can be a good choice for some kids. Depends on the situation as with many things in life.
“our local U which is at best a mediocre U.”
I think this kind of labeling is what many point to when they say that CCs are looked down upon in a condescending way.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek I think you make some valid points but here is where I think we digress.
Something Ive noticed is that the 100-200 series classes tend to be significantly harder at CCs than 4 years because CCs only have 2 years of undergrad to focus on whereas 4 years tend to focus more on the final two years. At my four year college, Ive noticed that CC students also tend to be prepared than their four year counterparts for upper level courses for this reason.
Also, I think getting into a significant research position as a first or second year tends to be pretty rare so this wouldnt apply to a lot of people. And professors who teach both upper and lower level course work tend to pay more of their attention to the upper level classes, so a transfer student who does very well in that class due to the strong fundamentals they picked up in their first two years could easily get a research position. Ive gotten two offers from two different professors in my department and am currently working with one and I transfered from a CC.
Also, I certainly understand why CC can have a reputation for being for low performing students. As it is often the case that these places are the only pace where poor students can go to. And excellent students tend to get offers to 4 years. But I think there is a difference between an institution that is open to lower performing students and an institution that doesnt offer a great education. Heck if a CC can take a student who performed badly historically and get them to trasnder to a place like UC Davis, Id say its quality may even be better overall. Thats been my experience.
I have a D’17 who is at community college for an AAS- she will not be transferring to a 4 year. She does live on campus, it feels like “real college” to her but as she begins her final semester next month I know she will be happy to not have another two years of it. She is ready to just go to work. She is a good student (3.9+) but it is her personality to want to dispense with the schooling efficiently and move on. I didn’t come to CC to discuss it because it was a simple matter. It’s been a great place for her though- in an up and coming area and better quality than our nearest cc- and she has no debt and barely touched her savings.
DD’19 is planning on a Bachelor’s degree and I have not really considered cc for her to start even though she could likely get free tuition at her sister’s cc. She has better stats and the opportunity for good freshman merit at a 4 year. In addition, I’d like her to just be at one school, attending freshman orientation and such, instead of having to start over at another college as a junior. She also will have about 30 credits of dual enrollment so there wouldn’t be a whole lot to complete at a cc, and they won’t have classes for her major. I want her to get started in her major(s) freshman year so she gets a better idea if they are what she wants. She’ll be in theatre productions and will have better opportunities at a university. Finally, this one is all about the “college experience” and really did not want to start at cc. If she had to financially, she would start at her sister’s cc but the small public university she has chosen is not that much more cost than cc and she has potential for more merit as well.
Considering our dd will be attending that U (my comment wasn’t about a CC, so not sure why my comment reflects on a CC in condescending way 
) I am not sure what to say other than that is my assessment. The avg student age is 24. It is very much a commuter school with a low 1 yr retention rate and the majority of the students not earning a degree within 6 yrs.
I have had students graduate from high school having completed 300 level classes at our local Us. Equally, they have had siblings who are not as strong of students taking courses at CCs. I do not agree with your assessment. But, I was not addressing classroom content in my post. The point I was making was that students who graduate from high school already having credit for 100-200 level courses don’t have courses options at a CC. So, for advanced students, CCs are not a good choice. (Equally, some LACs and 4 yr Us are not a good option either, bc the course options are too limited for what the student needs.)
All of my kids who have attend 4 yr schools have had the opportunity to get involved in research either freshman or sophomore yr, so I don’t think it is as rare as you think. Getting involved in research has NOT been based on professors teaching their classes. My ds never took a class from his mentor research professor during the entire 4 yrs he was enrolled in his school.
Growth in the project and the opportunities to present the research over multiple yrs does occur. A transfer student will not have the same level of background with a mentor when asking for a LOR for grad school simply due to length of time. The max time they would have been involved would be a yr. My ds, for example, started off doing simple computer programming for his mentoring professor his freshman yr. By his jr yr, he was part of her research team, meeting right alongside with grad and post-doc students. His level of involvement shifted over the time he was working for her. I had another ds who traveled internationally with his mentor to present his research at an international conference. It is possible for transfer students to get involved in research. No question. Again, that is not the point I am making.
FWIW, I’m not saying that CCs are a bad option. For many students, they offer exactly what the student needs and are typically financially affordable. I am just pointing out that there are valid reasons for not choosing that route.
@steffenberr This is probably college specific - perhaps class specific. I know it’s not true of our local CC and the 4 year schools my three lads attended. Each lad took courses at the CC during their high school years and found the equivalent courses at their respective colleges (2 LACs and a Research U) to be considerably more difficult. I work (teaching) at the local high school. I’ve heard back from several students who have taken courses at the CC and 4 year schools. I’ve yet to hear a single one say the course at the CC was more difficult than the counterpart course at the 4 year. In some cases they are equivalent. In some cases they liked the smaller class better for the “class size” reason. Not once have they said the CC course was more difficult, much less significantly more difficult. There are several cases where the CC course did not prepare them for upper level courses well enough though, esp in math/science.
Other CCs elsewhere may differ, of course, but know that your statement is definitely not universally true.
This is definitely not rare. It depends upon how much the student is interested in research and whether the school chosen has much in research, of course, but students who are interested in research use that as a criteria when looking for schools and easily get into research positions by sophomore year - often starting by their spring semester of freshman year, sometimes much sooner with Honors Programs and similar.
That said, CC is the perfect starting (and sometimes finishing) place for some students. Like any other college, consider finances and fit. Every school will have pros and cons. The same college that’s a perfect choice for Student A can be a terrible choice for Student B. This is true even if both options are 4 year schools.
I suppose it depends on the major @Mom2aphysicsgeek
For example in engineering, a lot of classes have prereqs at the college level. So unless you have the equivalent of a Associates degree coming out of high school (thats awesome if you do) then you definitely have many classes you can take. For instance, youd have to cover CalculusI-III, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, two physics classes, statics, statistics, dynamics, and material science, including multiple GEs to exhaust your course options at the community college level. All engineering programs require you to take these courses before even attempting upper coursework.
@steffenberr If even half of those courses are offered at your CC, it’s definitely a different CC than those around my area. Here Chemistry isn’t even always offered.
Also, many engineering majors have far fewer GEs that they need due to the coursework needed for engineering. Often freshmen start with an Intro to Engineering class (or its equivalent) at a 4 year school along with Calc (though many have had this in high school). The sequence starts from the first set of classes. It isn’t one students can jump into easily later. For students in my area, engineering is one major that is recommended starting at a 4 year school because even the Calc classes at the 4 year are more in depth than what they will get at CC.
Your area (and 4 year school) could very well be different, but it’s not the norm for my area.
@Creekland thank you for some valid points.
I think youre right, it does depend on the school. But just the fact that four years arent universally better I think bolsters my argument. The fact that I can pay 5% the price of a prestigious institution and even get close to the same quality ought to have a lot of people scratching their heads about why they are paying so much for college in the first place.
Also HOW much better are we talking about? 10% better? Twice as good? I ask because I think many parents now adays with great intentions are putting themselves through significant financial hardship because they believe that attending a prestigious institution will be necessary to their child’s success. But they havent thought about i paying ten times more for their childs education will lead to ten times better quality.
Also Im curious, as an educator, do you have access to statistics regarding how many freshmen and sohpomore go into research? Id wager its less then ten percent.