How many schools should we add to our list in quest of merit aid?

<p>One of my dd's primary concerns is to finish undergraduate school debt-free, so she is on a quest for merit aid. She is a junior and has good stats (4.0 uw, 32/33 ACT, strong ECs), but we aren't sure how widely to cast the net.</p>

<p>She currently has six schools on her list. Two of them are match/reaches -- her stats are at or above their 75th percentile, but they admit less than 50% of applicants. Three are match/safeties -- her stats are well above their 75th percentile, and they admit 75% or more of applicants. The final one is her financial safety -- an in-state public school where her stats will give her pretty much a full ride. This school is relatively low-ranked, but the better-ranked publics in our state don't have the program she wants. We haven't visited this school yet and don't know how she would feel about attending.</p>

<p>All but one of the schools on this list are known to give merit aid, including at least a few full-tuition or better scholarships. However, all but the in-state public (and possibly one other) are out of reach financially without significant aid.</p>

<p>I envision the frightening possibility that she is <em>accepted</em> at all six schools but given little or no merit aid except at the financial safety, which would leave her with only one real choice.</p>

<p>So how many more schools should we add to the application list in hopes of getting a good merit offer? We can probably identify another half-dozen or more schools where she would at least have a reasonable chance of merit offers -- you've seen many such schools named on this forum. They might be less of a "fit" than the top six already on her list; she might have less interest in them. But she might appreciate them more if they offered significant aid when the others did not.</p>

<p>Regarding need-based aid: We really don't know what to expect. Our AGI is in the 60k range, not low enough to capture the guaranteed aid that some schools give to low-income families. In addition, we own several heavily mortgaged single-family rental houses. They are investments for the future and do not contribute to our current cash flow, but I don't know how they would be viewed by financial aid formulas. So we're assuming the worst -- that we wouldn't qualify for sufficient need-based aid, or that if we did, it would come in the form of loans that dd wants to avoid.</p>

<p>What's the best strategy for her situation?</p>

<p>Within her search parameters, I would identify at least 6-8 schools that would likely admit her and where she would have a shot at merit aid. You haven't specified LAC or University, or her intended major/acedemic interests. If you do, the CC parents and students would be able to suggest possible schools.</p>

<p>I hate to be a broken record, but I urge you to look at Ohio University's Honors Tutorial College (HTC). Even if you are out-of-state, they have "automatic" merit scholarships that would pay for about three-fourths of an out-of-state tuition. My total bill for everything, after scholarships, including room and board and various other fees is less than if my son had gone to our state flagship. Check out the scholarships via the <a href="http://ohio.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ohio.edu&lt;/a> website (click on Admissions, then on Scholarships). Look for the Gateway Excellence Award (minimum ACT required: 32 - full amt to cover the in-state tuition) and the Gateway Trustee Award (scholarship for out-of-state students to make up a lot of the rest of the tuition). Both are 4-year scholarships.</p>

<p>The HTC has been the best thing to happen to my son, college-wise. Check out the advantages at <a href="http://ouhtc.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ouhtc.org&lt;/a> or check out some of my previous posts. The biggest advantages include very personal attention in a small group, one-on-one classes with professors ("tutorials"). He has also set up a program of study for himself that will give him both a Bachelor's AND a Master's degree within the four years (think of the merit award as paying for grad school as well). It really is as if he is in a small LAC with incredible support and small classes, but with all of the opportunities of a large school. The HTC is much more than a typical "honors program" at many other schools. And the campus is beautiful.</p>

<p>But HTC itself is quite difficult to get into (although your D's stats give her a great chance). We stumbled onto the OU website in our searching, and after a visit and interview, this became my son's first choice school. Only 60 students are accepted into the program each year (an average of less than 2 per major that they cover), and the application process involves several stages, including on-campus interviews of the finalists.</p>

<p>I am so pleased that my son is in this program and I think it will help insure his future success.</p>

<p>Check out the websites, and if you and your D are interested, send me a Private Message and I can give you much more detail about our experience (and some advice about applying)!</p>

<p>Bob</p>

<p>"...a shot at merit aid..." </p>

<p>The nice thing about Ohio Univ is that you know before you even apply what merit aid you'll get, based on stats. And with a minimum ACT of 32, the aid is significant. I also forgot to mention that you get a housing discount as well.</p>

<p>Curmudgeon is the expert on this one, hopefully he will chime in.</p>

<p>Assuming that you need at least half tuition - that is a better way for you to assess this, you don't have to share this with us, but figure out how much YOU can pay, then look at each school to see if you will need half the cost, 2/3rds the cost, etc - I would say add at least 2, to give her a choice.</p>

<p>You may need to delve a little deeper in the schools' websites to get all the info you need. Some schools tend to divvy out their merit aid amongst many students, often in a numbers driven format as a public school would - in other words you can easily guess/know what she will get, but it may not be as much as you need. Other schools are relatively stingy, using merit aid to capture a few exceptional (for the school) students. A given candidate might need stats at the very top of the pool to qualify, or may not be able to predict whether or not they will get aid at all, if the school uses merit to address diversity or other specific needs.
My point is if she has applied to more of the second group of schools, you may need to add 3-4 rather than 1-2 in order to have a comfort zone. If your finances can bend a little more, then adding 1-2 of the predictable merit schools might be enough to let you sleep at night.</p>

<p>If your D's HS has a very good experienced counselor, s/he might be able to help you with this, based on past experiences. That's what happened to us. We are full pay, we had one criterion for safety schools for our child - that they offer the possibility of significant merit aid. With the help of her counselor DD identified 4 potential safety schools - one known to be generous with aid; one that had plenty of money, but seemed stingier with aid, and, more importantly less predictable; one that had little money, but because of some endowed scholarships D would qualify for, would probably be at least half tuition; and the big in-state public, which would be essentially free, but was not in any other way a good fit. She did not end up at any of these schools, but the money fell out very much as the CC predicted.</p>

<p>Well, it's a crap-shoot to some extent, but I'll tell you what we did.</p>

<p>We put all the "piles" on the kitchen table. There were about 12, which I felt was too many schools to apply to (son was fading fast).</p>

<p>We took off the 5 that were reaches or match/reaches. I had arrived at the point where I felt we just had to GET REAL about merit aid possibilities. He applied to the remaining 7.</p>

<p>Of the 7 -- he got merit offers at 4 (2 good, 1 fair, 1 bad); no merit money at 1; state U was 1; and (surprise!) waitlisted at 1. So, I think in hindsight we were on target.</p>

<p>Be cautious with: "including at least a few full-tuition or better scholarships." Exactly how many is that? What are your daughter's chances of getting one? Are there enough lesser scholarships given out at these schools that would make them affordable for you? Also, just applying to MORE of this type of school (schools with few, but good, scholarships) may not increase her chances of good money. You need to make sure that you've got good solid schools on there known for giving out LOTS of merit money.</p>

<p>Some of it will have to do with how many schools your daughter is willing to fill out applications for (and do a good job on them!), also how much money you're willing to shell out for application fees.</p>

<p>Disclaimer: I'm no expert! This is just my opinion/experience.</p>

<p>Excellent question and strongly concur with the advice given - add more schools rather than fewer. I just posted about my son's experience on the Master List of Merit Awards. His first choice school is a Tier 3 school where it appeared he would be a strong candidate for merit aid. I discouraged him from applying to several other comparable schools since he really liked this school over the others. His stats are considerably higher than the minimum for this school's merit aid. The school just recently changed the range of the award. Despite several letters in the past weeks complimenting him on his high school record, he recieved the minimum award, about 20% of tuition. He has already received 50% of tuition from several schools, including one that is much higher ranked. So, two suggestions - once you have some schools, apply to more schools if you wish merit aid and be aware that the rules could change mid-stream.</p>

<p>I agree with palermo completely. Another $200 in app fees is little when you look at what the next 4+ years will cost.</p>

<p>Getting son to complete the extra applications is a far bigger problem!</p>

<p>I don't think I want to accept cangel's mantle of expert (I will take "incredibly lucky") but I will echo some thoughts of others on this thread. As an example, Rhodes college is a very generous merit school. If one was trying to find a private LAC with a wonderful setting and had the cash to pay for only an in-state school, let's say $15-16k, Rhodes is a fantastic choice but there are only 3 scholarships at Rhodes that would do that, and all consider more than just numbers . 3-4 full ride Bellingraths, a large handful of Morse scholarships, and an even larger handful of Cambridge scholarships. Without going back to check-25 maybe 30 at the outside. A 32/33 4.0uw is unlikely to be competitive for the top-most awards (last year they averaged over 1500 SAT, more like a 34). It might put her in the running for the Morse but most likely the Cambridge (still very nice at $22k) is her competitive level, numbers wise. And it is NOT a sure thing. Remember many of these kids that you will be competing with have acceptances to Dartmouth, Harvard, Stanford for these awards. </p>

<p>My point is that people somehow get the feeling that top 25%, or even "well-over" top 25% gets them in to the top tier of merit applicants at top 50 schools. It ain't happening. Try top 5% of applicants. Maybe top 1% of applicants for the top awards. Look at the UMiami thread and the Case Western thread and read the stats on the kids getting the top merit awards. There are no 32's or even 33's there. Look at the Hendrix and Centre stats threads on who has been invited to the scholarship competitions. 80 kids go to Hendrix with a 32 or higher to compete for 3-4 full-rides. Look at some of the transparent schools like dig suggested to see what you'd get. (Also, the College of New Jersey). There are phenomenal kids chasing these awards and your phenomenal kid , no matter how phenomenal, will be one of many.</p>

<p>You could add fifteen more top fifty schools merit aid schools and it really wouldn't increase your odds that much. A much better merit choice is to look within the schools ranked 70-100, and the schools that are just outside that, and find 3 or 4 great schools that will fill your needs. Good luck, and if you'll be more specific maybe we can suggest some schools that would be good merit bets. (Really need to know what your max cash out of pocket number is.) </p>

<p>My daughter is an LAC smaller uni fan so some of hers may not be appropriate.</p>

<p>
[quote]
From curmedgeon: My point is that people somehow get the feeling that top 25%, or even well-over top 25% gets them in to the top tier of merit applicants at top 50 schools. It ain't happening.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Excellent point. And, I think his strategy of appying to the 70-100 ranks is right on target.</p>

<p>Look at Denison Univ. Excellent merit money, lovely campus, 2300 students, very personal approach. But, it seems they divy out scholarship money based on more than just grades/exam scores. It SEEMS to me they use it to balance the student body (geographically, extra-curriculars, boys, etc.)</p>

<p>That's why I like the concept of guaranteed merit aid based totally on stats so you can know in advance.</p>

<p>Palermo, alludes to another reality of merit aid - the statistics are a moving target. As the pool of applicants gets larger, and the stats get better, the bar for merit aid moves up, another reason to add more rather than fewer schools.</p>

<p>You say your AGI is 60K, but you own rental properties. I would print out and fill out the FAFSA this year - just see where you are based on federal method. Several schools, including a few Ivies (Dart, ?Columbia or Brown), have calculators on their websites that include the institutions methodology, and give you a good ballpark idea of where you would be in terms of need-based. Regardless of what schools she is interested in, if you run a couple of calculators, and you faint, then you know she should concentrate her efforts on merit aid schools. If the EFC looks manageable, you might get her to throw in the richest need-based school that she likes, but caution her that it is not a "fall in love" school, it is a "send away and see what happens" school.</p>

<p>Finally, with a 4.0 and presumably, a difficult courseload, she is sitting on the cusp of money at 32-33 ACT - she may need to take the ACT at least once more, maybe twice. Explain it to her this way, every point on that ACT is worth 5-10000 dollars. 34 is sort of a magic number - it will get her a few more choices.</p>

<p>Curmudgeon and I cross-posted, but he is fleshing out what I was saying about the ACT. My data is a year behind, but I think she needs a 34 to put her into the running for a 2/3rds or better tuition scholarship at a college the level of Rhodes. Keeping in mind that Rhodes is notably generous - in number and amount of scholarships.</p>

<p>I would follow the Curmudgeon Plan - a couple more carefully prepped ACTs to bump up that score if possible, and drop down to the 50-100 schools.
It also helps to research the schools carefully, some of the 50-100s don't have that much money to give out, so you need to tailor her net to include some that are going to want her for other reasons than just numbers, out of state for instance. Always remember though, there needs to be some degree of fit - if the child is going to be totally unhappy at a given school, move on to another one - there are many fish in this ocean.</p>

<p>Ohio University has strong merit-aid, one of the best in the country as one of the above poster mentioned. </p>

<p>ACT -- SAT (M + CR) Gateway Annual Amount </p>

<p>36 1580 - 1600 Full In-State Tuition
35 1530 - 1570 Full In-State Tuition<br>
34 1500 - 1520 Full In-State Tuition
33 1450 - 1490 Full In-State Tuition
32 1400 - 1440 Full In-State Tuition
31 1360 - 1390 $4,000<br>
30 1320 - 1350 $2,000<br>
29 1280 - 1310 $1,500
28 1240 - 1270 $1,000<br>
27 1200 - 1230 $ 750<br>
26 1170 - 1190 $ 500
25 1130 - 1160 $ 500</p>

<p>Even if you are out of state, you will get the ''TRUSTEE'' Award which is an additional $4,500 to off-set the cost of out-of-state differences.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ohio.edu/admissions/gateway/index.cfm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ohio.edu/admissions/gateway/index.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>wealthof:
Maybe I've asked you this before, but is that information for in-state kids only? Or is it valid for out-of-state too?</p>

<p>Sorry for the highjack.</p>

<p>out of state too the website says...</p>

<p>Don't forget the women's colleges. Mt. Holyoke was particularly generous when we applied last year. Her stats will stand out more in the limited pool at these schools.</p>

<p>Also, many schools give book awards at the end of junior year. Rensselaer Medal provides any student who is accepted and attends RPI a guaranteed $60,000 scholarship. Some of the other book awards allow you to apply for special scholarships, so may be worth a discussion with her guidance counselor as to how these are chosen at her school.</p>

<p>Don't forget that if tuition is $30K and other expense are $10K, two-thirds tuition means that you're still talking $20K per year, or $80K over the 4 years - more than a state school with NO merit award.</p>